FS7: FS7 and editing workstation discussion thread

alohype said:
Working natively with XAVC today and CC15 and it constantly goes to black screen. Unusable... Does anyone of you have a solution? Terrible experience... :(

Edit: oh, wait. Even more: "error compiling movie. unknown error". No way to export it.
Click to expand...
i had very strange purple/yellow stripes whenever i stopped playback....either way, performance was so much worse then fcpx that i saw no real reason to continue with premiere past the trial....the reason i was looking at premiere again was the color controls but there are so many plug ins and such for fcpx now (incl curves,...) that i did not see any reason to switch (in my case) back to premiere.....
i did not even try to export anything...
 
I've got the opposite of Paul's problem.. RED is native on Premiere, and the 5K sample you can download from their site plays pretty smoothly on my 2007-era quad core. But the XAVC isn't happening at all. 1-2 FPS is the best it can do. And then Resolve Lite crashes.

Maybe a PC with a CineBench score of 30 will lite a fire under some of this 4K material.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wbzh_4Pwns
 
Didn't upgrade to '15 in the middle of a feature project and glad I didn't. Full 4K XAVC project seldom crashes. Can't play back smoothly at full res, but otherwise OK.
 
basspig said:
I've got the opposite of Paul's problem.. RED is native on Premiere, and the 5K sample you can download from their site plays pretty smoothly on my 2007-era quad core. But the XAVC isn't happening at all. 1-2 FPS is the best it can do. And then Resolve Lite crashes.

Maybe a PC with a CineBench score of 30 will lite a fire under some of this 4K material.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wbzh_4Pwns
Click to expand...

Do you have an NVIDIA with 2 GB of VRAM in your primary video card slot? Like a GTX 580 or newer or a Quadro 4000 or newer? A single 1GB NVIDIA GTX card will not be sufficient to run Resolve with HD material or higher and will crash when the buffer fills up. Similarly Premiere needs a semi-recent card with CUDA capability (3 to 4 years old to run properly).

I know some flavours of XAVC will run properly in Resolve if you rewrap it into a MOV file. You might want to try this.
 
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PMP1115,

Hopefully answering your original post question, but I also see posters have dipped their toes into 4K and some even mention 5K.

Currently I am shooting Full HD for my industry client projects. I have a major project going straight to web therefore it made sense to shoot XAVC-L 50Mb/s 4:2:2 10 bit as this gave the best options for capture file size and post grading (I am shooting SLog3 CineEI - often at 800EI). I have some shots at 4K but these are for better cropping (they are aerial shots). I shoot 50i (PAL land) as the media needs also to be available for broadcast - although initial delivery is 1080p progressive

I am a Adobe CC 2014 user on a PC platform. I have been an Adobe user for about 6 years. I'll mention CC 2015 later...

I use a 4 disk RAID 0 for media/scratch in an ICYBOX SATA backplane array. The disks are WD Blacks 500Gb 7,200 rpm 64Mb cache. My RAID array controller is in MOBO software not in hardware. Disk I/O through-put is about 600MB/s. I have a separate C drive SSD for programme files and a WD Black 1TB for exports and projects. 24Gb 1800 RAM and Nvidia GTX680 2Gb VRAM. Media Cache is to the fastest drive which is the RAID 0 array. My media backup is to a separate external PC base 4TB RAID 1 array on my local CAT6 network.

I run an Intel Hex (6) Core i7 970 3.2 GHz on a Gigabyte X58-OC MOBO. Windows 7 64 bit.

Current workflow is SLOG3 edit in Prem Pro CC 2014 with some shot stabilisation via Adobe AE Warp Stabiliser via link, rendered out in AE to Uncompressed YUV 10 bit MOV imported back into the Prem Pro edit with the link deleted. Prem Pro doesn't do linking well for large projects as it is crippled with a QT 32 bit server which chokes near to 4Gb - so no direct links on the eidt timeline.

Having completed the edit I export to DNxHD MXF 10 Bit 185 to Resolve (Speedgrade is a bolt on, and IMO not fit for the job) - use Scene Detection Cut, add to Resolve Timeline - grade and export back via DNxHD MXF 10 Bit 185 to overlay in Prem Pro on a spare V-Track. Time code readout is added on an adjustment layer for my VO artist (based 150 miles away) using an ipDTL VOip account over the net. Audio dub is via Adobe Audition. Then final export to taste.

No glitches no crashing . High quality results and works smoothly. Unlike CC 2015 which is a car crash at the moment. It looks like they'e change the RAM cache processing as it just eats my RAM. Plenty of problems about choppy playback being posted on the Adobe forum - not good at the moment. Staying with CC 2014 - it works.

I would like to upgrade the MOBO which will also mean I need a new Intel i7 or similar as they changed the CPU socket. I would also like to increase my RAID 0 array to six drives (extending the through-put speed) using a RAID hardware controller. Increase VRAM to 4Gb with the Nvidia GTX980 and double my RAM to 48Gb. Other than that, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Claire
 
basspig said:
I've got the opposite of Paul's problem.. RED is native on Premiere, and the 5K sample you can download from their site plays pretty smoothly on my 2007-era quad core. But the XAVC isn't happening at all. 1-2 FPS is the best it can do. And then Resolve Lite crashes.

Maybe a PC with a CineBench score of 30 will lite a fire under some of this 4K material.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wbzh_4Pwns
Click to expand...

XVAC runs a lot smoother on my system than Red .r3ds at full debayer.
 
Ben Scott said:
http://www.miraizon.com/products/codecsoverview.html
Click to expand...

Unfortunately sales of the Miraizon plugin ceased earlier in the year. Just before they sold off their assets, to some unknown buyer, they upgraded the plugin to use all the cores so the last version just flies but you can't buy it anymore. Really, really too bad for the users. The Cinic solution on the PC is silly expensive. You can check out the options here:

http://www.cinemartin.com/cinec/buy/

You will note the "cheap" (not so cheap) version only uses 1 core of your CPU.
 
That new plug in looks like its only for PC. Anyone have the old one available for Mac?
That provides DNxHD which I occasionally have to provide and it would nice to be able to play it on the mac .

Incidentally - on an entirely different issue - Ben, on your suggestion I picked up the Contax Zeiss 85mm and got the Leitax canon adapter . Then I dremelled down the metal piece that got in the way of the metabones adapter. Easy and it works fine.
I talked to my camera repairman first and he said not to worry it would only affect using it with Contax cameras and no one uses them anymore. .
 
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Andrew Stone said:
Do you have an NVIDIA with 2 GB of VRAM in your primary video card slot? Like a GTX 580 or newer or a Quadro 4000 or newer? A single 1GB NVIDIA GTX card will not be sufficient to run Resolve with HD material or higher and will crash when the buffer fills up. Similarly Premiere needs a semi-recent card with CUDA capability (3 to 4 years old to run properly).

I know some flavours of XAVC will run properly in Resolve if you rewrap it into a MOV file. You might want to try this.
Click to expand...


I've got a GTX680 4GB card, slightly overclocked. It gets a Cinebench OpenGL score of 78.8fps.
The CPU gets a Cinebench score of 447.
All of my discs are SSDs. Boot disc, media disc, render to disc, all Muskin Reaktor 1TB discs.
The motherboard RAM is maxed out to 8GB and is hand-tuned for maximum throughput using trials of Memtest 86 to check memory speed. I found the fastest timings that produce no errors in 24 hours of Memtest. That helped me play UHD video in Premiere CS6 without any dropped frames.

I learned last night that the 36-core monster PC built of two Intel E5-2699 18-core CPUs, only gets a CB score of 2468. That's only 5.5X faster than my system, which only manages 2FPS playback of XAVC 4K material. According to Moore's Law, today's processors should be capable of a CB score of over 16,000. That assumes doubling of processor power every 18 months since 2007, when my machine was built. A midrange i7 is only a little better and a top end i7 barely more than double, based on the ranking they show listing several systems and my system. My GPU scored the highest of all the systems listed, by a significant margin, which seems suspect, as I would suspect there are much faster cards, like the Titan, which should run circles around a 3 year old GPU.

In my mind, to reach 24FPS playback, it seems that I would need 12X the processor power that I have now. a CINEbench score of about 5400 or so. But there is no machine on earth now that can do that. So either DaVinci's code is very badly written, or there must be other factors.
 
My 980GTX absolutely runs rings around a 680GTX. Again, you're over thinking it and Cinebench is not an accurate measure of an edit system.

It cost well under £1,000 to put together a PC that can more than happily play 4/5k material.
 
I'm very suspicious of Cinebench. I fully expected my score to divide into the 36-core score by at least a factor of 30, not 5.5.

The problem seems to be XAVC. In the Sony Community, they're all complaining that they can't play or even scrub XAVC-L. And they're all in i7 processor land. That worries me.

Even HD 1080 XAVC-I (the easier of the two to decode)--just one stream of it-- drops frames like crazy on my machine, whereas Prores of the same 1080P material does not, even multiple camera angles. Forget about 4K XAVC. It's simply unplayable, unusable on a quad core. Can't get it to play even at 1/8 resolution.

That said, there must be some nonlinear factors to the processor scaling, if XAVC is playable on an i7. Could I get away with a 12-core Xeon processor instead of 18-core? How many XAVC streams (specify I or L format XAVC) can you edit on one of these boxes without dropping frames? Can you play 4K 60P without dropping frames?

In the meantime, I'm experimenting with shooting 4K in-camera, but recording 1080P with the Shogun and editing that. It looks very good. Certainly better than what I get out of my PMW-EX3 (less noise, better DoF control), and the data is 1/4 that of QFHD.

But I'm growing anxious to do some serious 4K work soon and the Shogun isn't giving me DCI 4K, so only viable option is XAVC in-camera. For that, I'm going to need a system that's in a whole new galaxy, as far as processing power.
 
I wonder how many of those with playback issues aren't using fast enough drives. As I said previously, a single i7 cpu, a 5820k in my case, has been good enough to fly with 4k media. But when allied to fast drives, fast GPs and a decent amount of ram. 8gb will not cut it.
 
I have 3 Mac workstations of various ages that all play 4k XAVC, be it in VLC or Premiere CC14 (I never early adopt until everything's ironed out)

2008 MacPro with old 2x 2.8 Quad core Intel Xeons and an old NVDIA Quadro 4000, 20GB RAM (Nothing fast compared to todays offerings)
2013 MacPro with D500, 6 core, 32GB RAM
2014 MacBook Pro 2.5ghz i7, 16GB RAM

I don't quite get why some people struggle and others don't, with similarly or better spec'd machines?
 
It's this XAVC that's giving me problems. I have great performance with Premiere CS6 and Prores UHD footage. But DaVinci and XAVC? Not happening. My SSDs all read at close to 500MB/sec, which should be enough for XAVC's data rate. My GPU is hardly under any load at all. It's the CPU that can't serve up the frames fast enough because it can't decode them fast enough. I can play uncompressed 4K that I rendered from Maya better than I can play XAVC.
 
You can go round the houses all you like, but 8Gb RAM for an edit system is a nightmare, let alone for one cutting UHD and 4k.
 
basspig said:
But DaVinci and XAVC? Not happening. M
Click to expand...

I'll admit that I'm not following every twist and turn of this thread so maybe I'm taking something out of context, but DaVinci works fine with XAVC. I'm grading XAVC with Davinci 11 on a MacBook Pro every day. Right now, in fact.
 
4k XAVC-I can be played full rez in Catalyst Browse on my 3 year old 21" maxed out Imac (L7,Nivida card, 16gb ram, G-Raid Thunderbolt editing drive.). Premiere CC struggles a bit with playback but usually is acceptable. I never shoot XAVC-L because it would stress the system a lot more.
 
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