FS5: Fs5, Slow Motion and shooting Live Sports...

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Bassman2003

Veteran
Hello,

I am very interested in the upcoming Fs5 camera. I often am involved in shooting live sports so the prospect of having 240fps is great, but the nature of the event being live means I often need to capture the real time events with audio as well. For those of you already in the Sony camp, is there a way to accomplish this?

I am not sure how the slo-mo works with these cameras. I have gathered that audio is not recorded and the camera is using all of its resources to create record and buffer the images. Would there be a way to send a "normal" feed out the HDMI to record real time to an external recorder?

As a single person crew I need to show the play and the replay! (or choose which one is best if possible). Thanks for your help.
 
Going from what I have read the slow motion functions exactly like the FS700. Once set up (FPS and start or end trigger) you would need to stop shooting, switch shooting modes via the S&Q button shoot and wait for the footage to write to the card. I never timed it but waiting for it to write to the card feels like it takes 30-40 seconds. After you switch back to regular shooting mode via the S&Q button again. No way to keep rolling to an external recorder as you do slow motion. I don't know much about live streaming but maybe a camera that shots a continuos high frame , the FS7 does 180fps and some mirrorless cameras like the Samsung NX1 will roll 120
 
The fs5 seems like it will be perfect for sports/broadcast jobs. The red cameras can also be cranked upwards of 120 fps while holding great high Rez. Another option is the gh4 it can be cranked to 98 fps at UHD... Pretty good look for small investment
 
You dont make it clear if your job is 'live' aka being broadcast live or just a (non repeatable) event that you must film.

The camera will film at regular frame rates no problem.

When you engage S+Q (HFR) mode you lose audio and can only shoot short chunks.

Once the chunk is filmed the camera is 'dead' while writing the slomo to the buffer.

During that time something important could happen.. scoring a goal for example and you will miss it.

I guess the camera is completely unsuited for broadcasting live (at anything apart from on speed 1080 via SDI.. that might lose your monitor!)

For filming a sport match that will later be made into a short film (or match report) I would think that the camera, in sloMo mode, would need to be one of many cameras and audio handled externally or on another camera.

I don't know but I think the cameras that are both live and can do slo mo replays are very complex/expensive.

S
 
Thanks for your replies. This would be for non broadcast work. The period where the cameras was dead would not be good. I was hoping the camera could keep a continuous signal output but it seems the S+Q mode replaces the "normal" shooting mode. So basically slow motion is sort of a trick or specialty shot instead of a filming mode.

The problem I run into is that you do not know what you want to slow down until the editing stage. At the event you need to acquire everything. Not that I would film an entire event in S+Q but the slo-mo can't replace everything else around it.

For example, if I am filming a diving meet, the divers need to see the real time recording, but want to see the slo-mo. My hope was that this could be accomplished with only one camera beyond a 60p frame rate. If only the audio track was recorded I could speed up the HFR and place it over the audio and have the best of both worlds.

Maybe a firmware update possibility?
 
Bassman2003 said:
Thanks for your replies. This would be for non broadcast work. The period where the cameras was dead would not be good. I was hoping the camera could keep a continuous signal output but it seems the S+Q mode replaces the "normal" shooting mode. So basically slow motion is sort of a trick or specialty shot instead of a filming mode.

The problem I run into is that you do not know what you want to slow down until the editing stage. At the event you need to acquire everything. Not that I would film an entire event in S+Q but the slo-mo can't replace everything else around it.

For example, if I am filming a diving meet, the divers need to see the real time recording, but want to see the slo-mo. My hope was that this could be accomplished with only one camera beyond a 60p frame rate. If only the audio track was recorded I could speed up the HFR and place it over the audio and have the best of both worlds.

Maybe a firmware update possibility?
Click to expand...

The a7SII records 120FPS (cropped 2.2x) with continuous audio. I've found it helpful in using chunks of audio played back in real time from the 120FPS clips. It's something I don't use that much, but when I need it I have it.
 
It's funny, my P2 Vari($40k), F55($30k) and C300($15k) can't record slo-mo AND audio simultaneously, BUT my freaking iPhone can... At 240fps...
 
Bassman2003 said:
The problem I run into is that you do not know what you want to slow down until the editing stage. At the event you need to acquire everything. Not that I would film an entire event in S+Q but the slo-mo can't replace everything else around it.

For example, if I am filming a diving meet, the divers need to see the real time recording, but want to see the slo-mo.
Click to expand...

You can always speed it up in post to achieve real-time (still no audio though). Diving is actually one scenario where S&Q Mode would work quite well, seeing as it is only a 3-4 second moment you need to capture each time.

You'd use the end-trigger which records the previous 8 seconds (240fps) or 16 seconds (120fps), that way you won't miss it by recording too early and having your buffer fill up before they actually jump. Then the camera writes it to the card, and you should be ready to go for the next person's dive. Then in post you drop it on your timeline and speed up 500% (for 24p) to achieve real time, or slow it down to 40% (because it records to a 60p file) for maximum slow-motion effect. This is pretty much what I do for surfing, although it has a much more random nature. End trigger really helps because you don't have to hit record (which locks the camera up while it writes the files) until after something worthy of capturing actually occurs.

You could even have a 2nd small camera just to record sound & a wide back-up shot - which is a good idea for live events & sports anyway.

Of course this is still far from ideal if you need full coverage (ie live coverage style - even if you are not delivering live), in which case you might want to check out the A7sII which has 1080p120.


FS700 has had audio on the 7Q with hfr. Not at 240 though as far as I'm aware
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Ben, I may be mistaken, but doesn't the 7Q have a separate audio input? If so would this allow sound to be recorded with HFR Prores?

It's funny, my P2 Vari($40k), F55($30k) and C300($15k) can't record slo-mo AND audio simultaneously, BUT my freaking iPhone can... At 240fps...
Click to expand...

It is annoying - and I feel so much of it has to do with the manufacturers desire for broadcast/professional cameras to have corresponding industry-standard formats. For example, the FS700 records the files in a 50p/60p container because that is the maximum allowable under the AVCHD format. Rather than breaking the specified rules of the standard, or including a generic, non-standard mp4 mode, they found a (rather clunky) way to make it fit within the specs.

On the other hand cameras like the iphone and Sony A7s don't have to fit to broadcast formats so they can include their own unique ones. Heck, the Panasonic compact-cams have had 720p120 for years, meanwhile some professional cams are only just moving beyond 24/25/30p.
 
Matthew Quinn said:
The fs5 seems like it will be perfect for sports/broadcast jobs. The red cameras can also be cranked upwards of 120 fps while holding great high Rez. Another option is the gh4 it can be cranked to 98 fps at UHD... Pretty good look for small investment
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Nope, the GH4 does 96fps and FHD not UHD!!

Samsung NX1 however is the way to go with slow motion on a budget. Does 120FPS FHD.

Two NX1 cameras could be really nice! One NX1 at normal speed and 4K for the wide shot as the back up, which also allows plenty of room to crop as you wish. And the second camera you man yourself at 120fps FHD.
 
Thanks for your input. I do not see why an audio track could not be recorded. As stated, this feature is in way less expensive cameras. I believe this was added as a firmware request to the NX-1. As a shot in the dark I sent a PM to Alister Chapman to ask his opinion.

The NX-1 does seem like a good option but I am looking to tick a lot of boxes with my one large sensor camcorder purchase.
 
Sony's RX10 II can also do 120fps while recording audio.

It's a constant aperture (f/2.8) super-zoom mated to a 1" BSI sensor. Offers Peaking, Zebras, XAVC S, S-Log2, HDMI, headphone jack, & 0.9 ND. Add a XLR-K2M (or XLR-K1M) & it can accept XLRs.

Never seen one in-person, but recently picked up it's pocketable sibling, the RX100 IV. Have only used it sparingly but so far it's produced nice images.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/1174273923/sony-cybershot-dsc-rx10-ii-in-depth-camera-review/11
 
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Bern Caughey said:
.. it's pocketable sibling, the RX100 IV. Have only used it sparingly but so far it's produced nice images.
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great series. I had the RX100 / II and I am thinking about the IV to have it mounted on a copter for video and photo as well
Have in mind that the RX10II has 3,5mm audio in and headphone out but the RX100 series has none of them.
 
Clermond said:
Have in mind that the RX10II has 3,5mm audio in and headphone out...
Click to expand...

Add a XLR-K2M, or XLR-K1M, & the RX10 II can accept XLRs.
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You may want to take a look at the FDR-AX100. I've been shooting with it for about 2 years, mostly 120fps and some 4K. It saves the 120fps 1280x720 video as 120p file so you can drop it on the timeline and either leave it to play back in real time or stretch it out to 4x slow-mo. Records audio in high speed mode. You can zoom and the auto-focus and auto exposure functions continue to work as well. On many cameras, you can't even zoom once you go into high speed mode, and exposure is locked or goes full manual. The FS7 goes full manual exposure and no audio, and no auto focus. The FS5 saves the high speed video in a 60i file format, yes interlaced. It's a 1 inch type sensor on the AX100 and you can get 4-5 hours of battery life. Small, handycam camcorder form factor. Zoom rocker doesn't give much control for creeping or crash zooms and you might find the zoom range a little short but other than that, might be what you need.

Mark
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I am frustrated because I am trying to hit 7 birds with one stone! I already own cameras but want to find a large sensor camera that I can sink my teeth into and want to own for quite a while. I use a Canon MKIII RAW but would rather keep the DSLRs for still work and have video ergonomics. The DVX200 is really what I want but its execution is a bit soft imho (codecs, basically an f4 lens, reportedly poor 120fps). I will keep my eyes open. After looking over the Fs5 manual I am a bit disappointed in the color controls for a $5,000 camera anyway.
 
I think one trick with many cameras is to set the system framerate to NTSC 59.94P (or something like that). This way you fool the camera into thinking you are gonna film for the The Hobbit trilogy and you can keep recording audio, atleast works with the Sony F3.
 
I finished a video a few weeks ago and posted it to Vimeo. Most of the slow-mo was shot with the FDR-AX100. Also used the Canon XF305, PXW-FS7, and many others. It's not sports, but you can get an idea of the image quality the AX100 is capable of.


Mark
 
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