FS100 post workflow.

cheezweezl

cheezweezl

Veteran
OK, so I have been ingesting footage using the FCP log n transfer. I haven't experienced any show-stopping problems, just a few annoyances.

1. the camera seems to name the clips "clip #1, clip #2, etc. (that's how they show up in FCP) and starts over each time a new card is inserted. this makes for duplicate file names, which sucks. i am having to go rename each clip in the LnT window before ingesting, which also sucks. Is there a way to name the clips a different way in camera? I haven't found anything in the menus...

2. Timecode. Each clip seems to have a starting timecode of 00:00:00:00. What happened to the timecode I recorded with?

3. SLOW..... Log n Transfer AVD to Prores is horribly slow. Always has been. Does anyone know a better solution? Is there an app like mpeg streamclip that reads these .mts files? Is there ANY app that reads these files?


EDIT: I just figured out the logging section of Log n Transfer, which i have never touched before. This kind of helps with problem #1. However, the best solution would have the clips be named correctly on the cards, so when i am dumping/converting on set, I don't have to worry if it gets logged correctly.
 
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for #1 - fcp usually fixes the clip labeling for me. The clips appear to start over at clip1 when I put in a new card, but once the transfer is done they show up sequentially in the browser - no repeated file names.

for #3 - Are you transcoding to prores HQ or LT?
 
for #1 The logging feature that I just discovered is actually pretty cool. I can give each card a custom reel name which will be very helpful when going from FCP to davinci via EDL.

for #3 ProRes HQ

The timecode thing is kind of a big deal. If each clip starts at 0, then that means a huge pain in the butt when sending from FCP to davinci or any other app using an EDL.
 
Try transcoding to prores LT and it should go faster. Prores HQ is overkill for AVCHD footage. You won't notice a quality difference at all.
 
harrisoncj said:
Try transcoding to prores LT and it should go faster. Prores HQ is overkill for AVCHD footage. You won't notice a quality difference at all.
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This is completely incorrect. Do yourself a favor and use a professional codec for your project. At least Pro Res basic. Stay away from Proxy and LT.
 
cheezweezl said:
The timecode thing is kind of a big deal. If each clip starts at 0, then that means a huge pain in the butt when sending from FCP to davinci or any other app using an EDL.
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Hmmm - how odd.

I'm getting timecode in FCP, using Log & Transfer, and from a demo copy of ClipWrap (I think I'll stick to L&T for now). In the images below, note the FCP TC Reader filter applied, and in the other screenshot, the Properties window lists a Timecode track in the ProRes movie.

Furthermore, I'm getting TC read out in the upper right hand box of the Viewer window in FCP, where I'd expect it to be.

The eagle-eyed (chicken eyed?) will say 'but the number in the top right hand window doesn't match the BITC!' - it's because that's the Canvas window, not the Viewer window.

tcinqt.jpgtcwithfs100.jpg

Yes, I set the TC Preset to the current time, and allow the TC to Free Run. For conferences, it's very useful and I'm now stuck in the ToD TC mode. Of course, if we had proper metadata support 'like wot FCPX is supposed to do', we could use the UB for this - and date too. But we must wait and see. Meanwhile, this will do me.
 
Could you please explain why this is incorrect? All I'm going off of is what I learned in film school and my experience. Even apple's white paper calls ProRes LT an "excellent choice for transcoding complex camera codecs like AVCHD." Unless your using the fs100 with an external recorder, I don't see the benifits of prores HQ. If you could share some facts as to why that's 'completely incorrect' your comment might be a little more helpful and a lot less snobby.

http://images.apple.com/finalcutstudio/docs/Apple_ProRes_White_Paper_July_2009.pdf
 
Cosimo Bullo said:
Stay away from Proxy and LT.
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I beg to differ.

LT is perfectly acceptable for non-broadcast work. By non-broadcast, I mean delivering high quality finished HD material rather than creating masters that will go through several further generations through the broadcast chain before hitting the viewers' screens.

LT is equivalent to standard ProRes on the first couple of generations, then begins to degrade FASTER than standard ProRes. HQ is designed for workflows that require handing off rushes to compositing and SFX before being fed back into Edit, then onto Grading/Finishing, then to delivery on tape, on film, on whatever. If you're going to go from camera to NLE to web (a professional workflow lest we forget), especially in fast turnaround stuff, ProRes LT was designed for this.

A colleague suffered artifacting whilst experimenting with LT, something I've never experienced. We share identical cameras and workflows, often working together. It was something dodgy in his system (I'd like to blame Perian because it's caused me no end of troubles). I've found LT absolutely rock solid for long-form work, and especially great for DSLR stuff.
 
Cosimo Bullo said:
This is completely incorrect. Do yourself a favor and use a professional codec for your project. At least Pro Res basic. Stay away from Proxy and LT.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but there is quite a bit of evidence to the contrary. In fact, Panasonic themselves released a white paper that also indicated that ProRes LT is more than sufficient for AVCHD material, and that ProRes LT is also 10-bit. LT is not a proxy codec.

White Paper: http://www.panasonic.com/business/provideo/includes/pdf/White-Paper-Editing-AVCHD-with-FCP7.pdf
 
I use ClipWrap to do all my FS100 transcoding. The developers told me in the next version you will be able to supply a prefix for the clips. When I am in the field recording, the people who grab my footage I tell them to grab the ENTIRE directory structure and place it in a folder like "PROJECT - SHOOTER - CAM - CARD#". Then later, when the transcoding is happening, all the info they or I need to add is there.
 
Rick Burnett said:
The developers told me in the next version you will be able to supply a prefix for the clips.
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Aha! That's the version I should be trying! :)

Of course, I could bore them rigid with demands for 'XDCAM Transfer for AVCHD' but creeping featuritis is a horrible software disease.

'If only we could block-select ranges of clips on a card, giving them proper names, injecting metadata into QuickTime tracks just like XDCAM Transfer...'

But a great beginning for what may well be a cornerstone app!
 
harrisoncj said:
Could you please explain why this is incorrect? All I'm going off of is what I learned in film school and my experience. Even apple's white paper calls ProRes LT an "excellent choice for transcoding complex camera codecs like AVCHD." Unless your using the fs100 with an external recorder, I don't see the benifits of prores HQ. If you could share some facts as to why that's 'completely incorrect' your comment might be a little more helpful and a lot less snobby.

http://images.apple.com/finalcutstudio/docs/Apple_ProRes_White_Paper_July_2009.pdf
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No reason to call people names now. My experience with the AVCHD codec is that there's a lot more hiding in those shadows than initially meets the eye and that the Pro Res LT codec starts to break up in the blacks much faster than standard or HQ. The point of my comment is to HELP keep another filmmaker out of trouble down the road.
 
Cosimo Bullo said:
No reason to call people names now. My experience with the AVCHD codec is that there's a lot more hiding in those shadows than initially meets the eye and that the Pro Res LT codec starts to break up in the blacks much faster than standard or HQ. The point of my comment is to HELP keep another filmmaker out of trouble down the road.
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haha sorry your comment just came off that way. I guess my point is - your info is only help if you actually explain why to do things differently. When I'm doing smaller jobs, or hd web content with minimal color grading, etc. - waiting around longer for prores HQ to transcode would NOT be helpful. Time is money :grin:
 
Cosimo Bullo said:
This is completely incorrect. Do yourself a favor and use a professional codec for your project. At least Pro Res basic. Stay away from Proxy and LT.
Click to expand...

Yeah, totally. Prores LT is a proxy format. I can't see why you would even use it unless you have a slow computer. No sense in doing an offline when most newer macs can handle prores hq no problem.

As far as it being no different, try grading LT with davinci or color. you'll see a difference fo sho.

EDIT: after reading the rest of the thread, i guess i see the point of saving disk space. just not for me though. HQ is it.
 
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Alas no. I've tried Rec Run and Free Run - all got timecode correctly ... AND I used ProRes LT! :-P (grins, ducks and runs)
 
Hey, actually guys, found something odd. Has anyone got 1080p50 or 1080p60 to work yet, using ANY ingest mode?

I'm not talking S&Q mode 1080p50, just the new 1080p50 mode that ups the bitrate of AVCHD.

I've got a 1080p50 clip which plays in VLC (like - you could play a coffee stain in VLC such is its amazing powers of awesomeness), but if I wrap or transcode it in ClipWrap, it is unplayable. It comes up as a sound file in MPEG StreamClip, and Log and Transfer barfs, then refuses to encode anything after it.

I guess it is rather new and may not be supported by most software yet, but...

But 720p50 is fine. Just 1080p50.
 
cheezweezl said:
Yeah, totally. Prores LT is a proxy format. I can't see why you would even use it unless you have a slow computer.
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Because its completely unnecessary, why would you have a large file size for a clip at the same quality level? the fs100 is shooting 8bit 420, not 10 bit 422/444, there no point using HQ, its overkill for avchd. LT is perfect for avchd and keeps file sizes down.
 
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