Frustrated beyond belief with vertical banding

[Framerate]

I'm tempted to buy a newer hackable body...as I was able to confirm side by side at Samy's that there is a difference.

It's certainly worth a shot - because they do vary considerably.

I've owned two GH1's. The first was a February 2010 model. That had no vertical banding, but did have a fair bit of colour noise - nasty splodges, mainly noticeable in still images.

I sold it in preparation for the GH2, but was tempted by the recent UK £249 brand new/hackable body offer. so I got another one.

This is December 09 - again, no vertical banding even at iso 3200, but also hardly any colour noise ( a bit, but nothing like the previous one)

So it's obvious that there is a massive variation is production runs - which shouldn't be the case.

My own theory about the banding is that it's electronically induced - possibly some of the components that Panny buy in are closer to tolerance than others.


Bottom line? - buying a GH1 is (as you Americans say) a crap shoot - good one?, bad one?, who can say?

I'm just hoping fervently that Panasonic have sorted out their quality control, and that the GH2's will be consistent - but I think I'll be hanging on to my 'good' GH1 until I've bought and tested my GH2. If it's bad, it will back to the dealer by return post.

 

[Framerate]

It involves taking a dash of magical thinking, with a sprinkling of irrationallity and a good dose of anecdotal bullshit.

Mix it all together.... then leave your camera on for a couple of days with the lens cap on.

Voila!

The breed of chicken that you sacrifice before commencing the burn-in is also important...apparently

 

[dvxhutch]

Also, I'm a horror film maker.. pretty much all I do is horror films.. How can I shoot at night, without banding and it look "dark"? I know that you need to light properly, but how do you make something look dark if your having to light it up extensively.

Then the gh13 is probably not the right camera for you. If money is tight, I'd recommend buying a t2i and then renting a 1dMIV for a weekend or week to shoot the really lowlight stuff - it has insanely good lowlight capabilities. The 5d is excellent wide open, but actually VERY soft if you want deep DOF.

As far as the burn in goes, it worked for both of my gh13s. I left them on for 2 days at 1600 ISO, and now I have clean iso's up to 1250. 1600 still has banding, but it's greatly reduced and usable in many instances.

I wonder if there is a difference between the Japanese and Chinese models? Both of mine were Japanese, a friend's is Chinese and the burn in didn't work.

I refuse to buy Chinese electronics - never know what you're getting.

Good luck.

 

[Azmyth]

How are you supposed to monitor if it is underexposed? The meter thats on the camera apparently doesn't work, because even when the needle is right in the middle.. I still get banding.

 

[Ben_B]

How are you supposed to monitor if it is underexposed? The meter thats on the camera apparently doesn't work, because even when the needle is right in the middle.. I still get banding.

Live histogram (which btw the Canons don't have.)

 

[Azmyth]

Let me ask this question. Just because I'm shooting horror films, doesn't mean I need to be able to shoot in "low light".. it just means I need to light the scenes so that it looks like night, but maintains being exposed correctly. I mean, I've seen the Shady Texas trailer, and the short that won monsterfest.. both "look" pretty dark.

 

[svecher]

How are you supposed to monitor if it is underexposed? The meter thats on the camera apparently doesn't work, because even when the needle is right in the middle.. I still get banding.

The meter has three different modes. In varied lighting conditions I like to use spot mode, which allows reading a measurement from a narrow "spot". For even higher accuracy you can get a handheld calibrated meter. Measuring brightness of each element in the scene allows you to make decisions regarding correct exposure settings in the camera, as well where light needs to be added

 

[Svart]

I find that the ( * ) setting reports back numbers that are more like my handheld light meter in certain conditions. I also find that the GH1's meters are very sensitive to point light sources regardless of the metering mode used and pretty much use my handheld meter for most things.

 

[Azmyth]

Here's another question and forgive me if its a stupid one.

Those of you who aren't having issues with banding. Are you able to turn on your GH1, and shoot something in a room with incandescent lighting (normal household lighting) and NOT get banding, at any ISO.

 

[Lpowell]

Are you able to turn on your GH1, and shoot something in a room with incandescent lighting (normal household lighting) and NOT get banding, at any ISO.

For dimly lit areas, I've found that using MJPEG helps, as it fills in more of the darker details. Here's a couple examples, using my Reliable In-Camera Playback Patch:http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?219132-40Mbps-AVCHD-High-Reliability-Patch

Those frames were taken straight out of the camera. Post-processing can also be used to crush the low-level noise into high-contrast blacks. When shooting, I'd flatten the dynamic range with a bit of fill light, and expose the highlights to just short of blown. In post, I'd lower overall levels till the shadows are as black as I want, then turn up the contrast till the whites are bright enough.

 

[Ben_B]

Try crunching the contrast in camera. Check out the area left of the cup. Most banding is caused by the camera artificially brightening a dark (but light colored) area.

GH1 Flat settings

GH1 contrasty settings

 

[mimirsan]

I have owned a older model GH1 for over a year and have noticed the banding in mjpeg has very near gone away...so maybe burn in may work....mines a china model.
Avchd ive seen no banding.
I also have all auto settings off (i exposure off,DNR off...sharpness +1,reduced saturation) and have found that I get very little banding at iso 800 (generally use 400 mostly) not sure if this improves things.
AVCHD FHD hacked also, 25p native 50 shutter.

In all honesty though ive never really found banding as bad as folks make out here except in mjpeg mode.

contrast/exposure causes the issue. So Ben B's theories are good!

 

[tonpole]

Not sure what you're concerned about, banding of any kind is really hard to detect on moving scenes. Its easy to analyze a still frame to death, but the reality is the audience cant tell the difference, having nothing to compare it to, and if you're doing horror then noise just adds to the effect anyways.

 

[plasmasmp]

I have horrible FPN on my camera if there is nothing correctly exposed in the frame. Here's how I can make ISO 1600 as usable as any other ISO. Also, for me, none of the settings make a difference besides the amount of area correctly exposed.

 

[cordvision]

This is not really a practical solution, unless you are really going for a flat look....

 

[Azmyth]

I've just chalked it up to this just not being the right camera for the job I need to do. It shoots amazing images when under the right conditions, but most of the time I won't be in those conditions.

 

[Razz16mm]

There is a "pixel refresh" menu item that recalibrates the sensor. This should reset reference black level to eliminate pattern noise. Have you tried that? I think the procedure is to select that menu item with the lens capped, turn the camera off and back on. Let it sit for a while. Make sure no light can reach the sensor.

 

[Homunculus]

There is a "pixel refresh" menu item that recalibrates the sensor. This should reset reference black level to eliminate pattern noise. Have you tried that? I think the procedure is to select that menu item with the lens capped, turn the camera off and back on. Let it sit for a while. Make sure no light can reach the sensor.

man none of that b.s. works, pixel refresh, burn in, nothing. just face it, the GH1 has a huge fpn/banding issue and there is no way around it PERIOD. I have had my gh1 since early this year and am getting rid of it as soon as possible for a canon 7d/5d or possibly af100. I get bad banding/fpn at as low as ISO 200-300

 

[Azmyth]

I thought I tried that already, but I'll try it again.... how long is a "while"

 

[Azmyth]

man none of that b.s. works, pixel refresh, burn in, nothing. just face it, the GH1 has a huge fpn/banding issue and there is no way around it PERIOD. I have had my gh1 since early this year and am getting rid of it as soon as possible for a canon 7d/5d or possibly af100. I get bad banding/fpn at as low as ISO 200-300

I'm pretty much in this camp. I haven't used mine a whole lot but unless I'm outside in the sunshine or have it lit up like christmas (which doesn't look good) I get the FPN at any ISO I wish to choose. I've never even shot anything above 400 ISO. I think its a great camera, but its just not gonna work for what I need it for. I know I've seen a ton of stuff done under conditions I'd be shooting with, but they either got a "bandingless" model or have figured out a magic way to work around it. It seems it would just be easier to buy a 7D or T2i. Alot of the "negatives" with those cameras aren't an issue with what I shoot.. recording limit etc.