Frustrated Audio Guy!!

tbuelna

tbuelna

Active member
I just finished filming a Zombie short film and was combing through the footage. Video looks great but the audio is crap!! I filmed on a Canon 5D II, have a Rodeo Videomic Pro plugged in to the camera and then had a Tascam Dr-100 with an Octava mic on a Gitzo pole with a blimp and windsreen. Anyway, one of the rubber band supports that holds the videomic popped out and I didnt notice, so all the audio from the Canon has the mic banging the surround. The Tascam/Octava combo has a high pitched noise that sounds like interference of some sort. My question is, how can I tell if the noise is from the Tascam or Octava? Also, what is the next "upgrade" after the DR-100 that you would recommend?
Thanks!!
 
Headphones were used. Friend didnt know the difference between a high pitch...thought it was normal. Any ideas whats causing it? Defective unit?
 
But wait. That isn't really a get off the hook card. OK you had a deaf friend so you had him listen to one set of recordings. What about the camera? I know it doesn't have a headphone jack but you know what, people who shoot the big films where everybody gets paid a bunch take the time to do tests and checks. Don't mean to be mean but you sounded like having your friend ended your responsibility, it doesn't.

OK we all make mistakes. The folks your asking help from may know the answers because they have made the same mistakes.. and learned from them.

That is the first take away. Don't ever let this happen again.
As to your Q. No idea what the high pitched sound is but the good news is if it's really high it's out of the vocal range and you should be able to get rid of it with out hurting the track much.

If you need the on camera sound it may be possible to clean up at least some of it with RX and a decent sound post person.

If your guy really couldn't hear it it might have been his earphones bleeding back to the mic. Probably not but?
 
The audio was tested and was working perfect. The last few short films I have made...have not had any audio issues. Basically the Tascam or the Octava is now defective, I am simply asking people in the "AUDIO FORUM" if they have had any similar issues. I am not looking for a Monday morning Quarterback about hiring a pro. I am simply asking if someone has had this issue.
With ZERO budget filming, you have to use any friend you can to hold a mic or to help move lighting, etc. Hiring a pro is not something I will never do. I simply need equipment that will not break down in the field when I am stretched so thin to double/triple check every detail. I do this for a hobby. If you don't have any input on my question...do not reply with some pointless remark. Simply to not hit the reply button. If you do have some input, I appreciate your time and .02
 
Just curious, are you now listening to your ruined audio on the recording devices, or in a edit suit. If it is cam playback, that can be notoriously bad, as is the headphone output on the dr100.

Seriously, how could you miss a broken suspender? Sorry, just had to pile on.
 
Yes, we have all had "similar issues". But we learned what caused them and how to prevent it from happening again. Just as you will.

We are flattered that you think we can just guess what is wrong from your complaint. But we are not clarivoiant, at least not at this distance. Post a sample of the audio if you want realistic help to diagnose the problem.
You have demonstrated that your "check once and forget it" method of audio quality-control doesn't seem to cut it in the real world.
An "audio guy" who can't tell bad audio when he hears it is actually WORSE than no audio guy at all. Because he gives you a false sense of security that someone is actually watching out for the audio.

Yes, it may seem like people are harsh and uncaring, but you have demonstrated that you took too many shortcuts and your technique has come back to bite you on the backside. This may seem like "monday morning quarterbacking", but we have lost count how many people have come through here (and other similar forums) with exactly the same issues. And virtually all preventable by taking a more active, conservative approach to acquiring good production sound.

This would have happened with lighting or camera or any other production element if you had taken similar ill-advised shortcuts. Audio is not magic. The good audio you hear in the theatre and on TV didn't just happen. Far more work went into capturing and editing than you realize. Starting with someone monitoring who knew what they were doing.

Learn from your mistakes and you will get better sound next time.
 
tbuelna said:
I just finished filming a Zombie short film and was combing through the footage. Video looks great but the audio is crap!! I filmed on a Canon 5D II, have a Rodeo Videomic Pro plugged in to the camera and then had a Tascam Dr-100 with an Octava mic on a Gitzo pole with a blimp and windsreen. Anyway, one of the rubber band supports that holds the videomic popped out and I didnt notice, so all the audio from the Canon has the mic banging the surround. The Tascam/Octava combo has a high pitched noise that sounds like interference of some sort. My question is, how can I tell if the noise is from the Tascam or Octava? Also, what is the next "upgrade" after the DR-100 that you would recommend?
Thanks!!
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Many of the points that needed to be made for your situation have been said. But if you were shooting the vid, then you were not the audio guy.

You have learned a painful but necessary lesson, as Richard has pointed out. Just about every film-maker who is learning the craft experiences this. And next time, that mistake will probably not be repeated.

Don't get me wrong, I do have sympathy for you, but you have to ask yourself this question...... "Would I have put an inexperienced buddy on the camera as an operator?" If you answer "No", then why did you do that for the other 50% of the sensory experience of the film? I am sorry if you feel this is "monday morning Quarterbacking", but you asked the question of experienced sound guys, who ARE trying to help you with the most important advice they can give you. "Give a man a fish....or teach him to fish" (paraphrased) What would have more value?

Lessons to take away from your experience:

1. Monitor the audio as it is being recorded.
2. Put the same effort into audio as you do the video.
3. Hopefully the audio is recoverable and you can use Noiz2's suggestions.
4. Check your equipment prior to recording
5. Audio is a very important aspect to film and is not easy to do well without training and experience.


I also agree with the suggestion to post a clip for us to listen to. You will get a better response.
 
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ggrantly said:
Just curious, are you now listening to your ruined audio on the recording devices, or in a edit suit. If it is cam playback, that can be notoriously bad, as is the headphone output on the dr100.
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Yeah, make sure that the captured audio is in fact bad first. Have you tested your equipment since to find the faulty link in the signal chain?

If it is really high pitched you may be able to EQ it out. Sometimes it is easier to do the more laborious process to remove the dialogue with filters, invert the phase and mix it back in to knock the sound out. Might result in telephone voice depending on how surgical you are. How clean is the sound otherwise? Maybe you can do the opposite of the original Tron trick (adding sound effects to make visual glitches seem intentional) and make it 'on purpose'. Come up with a plot reason for the sound. Add more sounds of a similar nature to blend unintentional and intentional. The Tron trick was one of the best features in the film, almost entirely responsible for setting the atmosphere...and it was a mistake! Otherwise just ADR the whole thing.

Rather than tell you to pay a guy - if your friend is that bad next time YOU wear the headphones. Your friend can just hold the boom.
 
ggrantly said:
Just curious, are you now listening to your ruined audio on the recording devices, or in a edit suit. If it is cam playback, that can be notoriously bad, as is the headphone output on the dr100.

Seriously, how could you miss a broken suspender? Sorry, just had to pile on.
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Noise is present in editing.

How could I miss a rubber suspender that popped out during a shoot where I was directing 15 people, working with lots of makeup (zombie movie), lighting several sets, helping to move equipment, dial in camera settings each scene, work with the script, help with practicle effects, and 100 other things...I guess I overlooked a rubber suspender popping out of a hole, HA HA!!

I do ADR/Foley every shoot...so not a big deal.

Basically I am wondering if anyone who actually owns audio equipment and doesnt hire a pro...has had the noise issue and if its from the unit or mic. I can tell this forum does more hiring than anything else.
 
tbuelna said:
Basically I am wondering if anyone who actually owns audio equipment and doesnt hire a pro...has had the noise issue and if its from the unit or mic. I can tell this forum does more hiring than anything else.
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I'm finding it hard to believe that anyone could fail to notice the sound of a mic clunking around. Everyone knows the sound of tapping on a mic, check one two. Find a friend who isn't deaf.

It's not exactly hard to find out where the fault lies in your signal chain. It is either a poor connection or a faulty component. Set it up as before and replicate the fault. If it doesn't happen it was probably a connection. If it does then swap the mic. If it comes good it is the mic. If not put the mic back in and swap the cable. If it comes good it is the cable. Work your way through the chain one element at a time. It's not rocket surgery. :) You don't need to know how stuff works, just trace the signal path and test the elements. It's straight logic from there.
 
How could I miss a rubber suspender that popped out during a shoot where I was directing 15 people, working with lots of makeup (zombie movie), lighting several sets, helping to move equipment, dial in camera settings each scene, work with the script, help with practicle effects, and 100 other things...I guess I overlooked a rubber suspender popping out of a hole, HA HA!!
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Well I can see why you would not want a sound guy. It would be so distracting...

I do ADR/Foley every shoot...so not a big deal.
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You realize that this, following the above... I won't go there.

Basically I am wondering if anyone who actually owns audio equipment and doesnt hire a pro...has had the noise issue and if its from the unit or mic. I can tell this forum does more hiring than anything else.
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The responses you are objecting to ARE from pros and users that OWN the equipment. This is the sound forum, who do you think hangs out here? This section is populated , folks with a lot of posts anyway, by folks who do sound not filmmakers who hire sound folks.

One can't be positive with out laying hands on and doing some tests but I would give you 50 to 1 that the problem is not "defective" equipment. The problem was probably a connection, or placement. You either had a screwed up connection and picked up some RF junk or the mic was too close to or pointed at something making the noise. And fundamentally the problem was that the sound was not being monitored.

I was giving you a skate on the Video Mic because you can't monitor in real time and you could have listened to a shot where it didn't bounce around. But since you were "dialing in the camera each scene" that means you were looking right at it over and over and didn't notice it was hanging at a weird angle... You still get a 50% skate because that isn't your focus at the time. You only get a 50% skate because you had someone who could/ should have been checking it and either wasn't told to or wasn't doing his job.

Part of the problem you are having with folks posts is that you posted a false question. You posted a "I got bad sound and it was the equipments fault, what do I buy so it wont happen again".

The answer is that it almost definitely was not the equipments fault. We are not trying to dump on you just trying to get you to move past the denial stage so you can get to the real problem.

For what you are doing you don't need a paid sound person. It's a hobby, it's for fun, I get it. But you do need A sound person. The reason isn't just quality but fun factor. Unless this is all about being mister one man artist superguy, you and everybody else will have a lot more fun if you have a small crew. That does not involve $$$$ It involves you asking folks.

I was on a shoot a few weeks ago. It was a zero budget international live music broadcast over skype for some festival in the Netherlands. The composers asked a few people for advice and got a bunch interested, they got some more involved. What was going to be the composers playing a MIDI sequence out of their livingroom became a small orchestra performance from the local university rehearsal space. We had a still photographer, 10 audio feeds going to multitrack recorders and a few plant zoom recorders, three high end (older generation) cameras plus three or four DSLRs and a hand full of plant flip cameras. There was the skype feed and everything else is going to a very accomplished editor (who volunteered because he thought it would be fun) so they will also end up with what should be a really interesting video of the event and BTS shots and footage. Now granted most of this is because the lead cameraman thought it would be fun and none of us were busy and he got the rest of us involved. But I have done a TON of gigs like that.

Pros generally want to keep "working" to keep the skills tuned up and if we are not working a paying gig 90% are suckers for a no budget adventure.

You have to ask, and it can't be a "it's all about how great I am" trip for the director.
 
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No one can help you diagnose the issue with out hearing it. period.

everyone here has made an attempt to help you and not just dumping on you because we want you to get good audio not just to be know-it-alls.

The MOST important thing is to realize that audio is very important and needs way more attention and respect than you appear to give it, it is a Skill and acraft all on its own.

hopefully the latter has occurred and you no longer will rest on the gear alone.

Post your audio and we will be more than glad to offer possible fixes as the movie is already shot, and as they say hind sight is 20/20.

Now lets see what we can do to help you fix it.


Good luck

Good luck.
 
I'm finding it hard to understand a shoot so complicated it needs all these people and jobs being done using people who are not very good.

The OP wants to know if we've had similar problems, and as has been said - yes we have. I have had the broken rubber band problem myself, and because I was not monitoring the audio at all, as the mic worked last time, I ended up with an unusable track too. Never done it again, though. The OP says we are a hire in forum. I don't think that's entirely correct, but what do you do when you need skills you don't have? Hire or borrow somebody who knows what they are doing or potentially waste your production budget.

You cannot be a one mad band once production complexity heats up - especially when it's costing you money. Good people may be expensive, but the re-shoot costs are far higher. If you can't let us hear the track - all we can do is guess?

I don't see why people join a forum to get help then moan when the help isn't what they want to hear. With hindsight - it's easy!
 
tbuelna said:
Basically I am wondering if anyone who actually owns audio equipment and doesnt hire a pro...has had the noise issue and if its from the unit or mic. I can tell this forum does more hiring than anything else.
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Have an MK-012, don't have the recording device you used, so, no can't answer for that particular configuration... but no, haven't had a 'high pitched tone' in my recordings using the Oktava.

You haven't answered the question as to whether the tone is in the voice range or not... if not, then there may be a filter solution to save the audio. Given that all that has been said about using the DSLR internal audio recording, for any DSLR, why would would you use it, other than as a reference track. As a reference track the dangling cord may be a distraction but not a total loss. Sounds like you were doing 'shaky cam', which I personally hate... but that aside, the mic on a camera is so distant from the speakers normally, it is almost useless for 'quality' sound for the most part.
 
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