From Vegas to AVID?

Slimothy

Slimothy

Veteran
I'm thinking about making the switch from Vegas 5 to AVID and I have a few q's.

1. How intuitive is it compared to Vegas? As we all know, Vegas is VERY intuitive, am I going need to take some courses/tutorials to learn AVID?

2. Which version should I get? I want to be able to upgrade to the HVX eventually, so I'm thinking Avid Xpress pro?

3. What should I expect to pay for this program?

4. How does it compare to the REALLY expensive Avid machines that the pros work with?

Thanks so much.
 
1. There will be a learning curve, but nothing you shouldn't be able to handle. The "core" NLE knownledge that you have with Vegas with translate, and you'll just have to learn Avid terms and buttons.

2. Xpress Pro is a must for 24p(A) and for the HVX. Xpress DV won't give you the things you're after.

3. $1,695.

4. It compares pretty well. Media Composer and Symphony offer a few more features, effects, resolution options, I/O options, etc. As far as interface, if you learn Xpress Pro then you can sit down on a Composer or Symphony and be ready to roll. It also benefits from Avid's Total Conform, meaning you can offline a project on Xpress Pro and take it to a higher-end machine for finishing.
 
Yeah, Avid is so nice in the respect that if you know the low end version (Xpress Pro) you can sit down at any Avid system and be ready to go. It's beautiful!
 
why is it that your wanting to move to an Avid product from Vegas?
If your wanting more capabilities for your projects, your just not gonna find it, I'm afraid. If your wanting to market yourself as an editor, you will have to learn Avid's interface. It remains the industry standard, not because it's wonderful but because it's over 15 years old. Because Avid is now moving much slower than everyone else as far as capabilities, this will not be the case much longer.
 
Grinner-You suggest I stay with Vegas? What capabilities does Vegas have that Avid doesn't? Also, what do you edit with? Thanks for your input/advice. Tim.
 
Avid move slower than everyone else? Adobe move more slower than Avid. And on new standard, Avid responds quickly to the demand. Personnally, I like the interface of Avid. I try Sony Vegas and I must admit the audio part of this NLE is pretty, pretty nice and Avid must do something about this, but on the video side, I prefer Avid in any ways.
 
Slimothy said:
Grinner-You suggest I stay with Vegas? What capabilities does Vegas have that Avid doesn't? Also, what do you edit with? Thanks for your input/advice. Tim.
Click to expand...

ElvisNTSC touched on this a bit. Vegas has a much, much more robust set of audio tools. Avid was really built to work along side ProTools, so there's very little in the way of audio toolsets.

I believe that Vegas also has secondary color correction, which is sadly missing from Xpress Pro (though I bet that sooner rather than later Avid will have to unlock this feature).

Vegas offers the ability to work with third party capture cards. Avid does not.

Regarding Avid being slow on development, that may be true, but the trade-off is generally stability and a better workflow.

The big thing to consider is your workflow. Are you more of a "One app to do it all" user, where you want video, audio, compositing, and authoring in the same app, or do you mind specializing and having an editor, and audio workstation, a compositing program, and a DVD authoring app?

If you want the all-for-one package, then Vegas will continue to make you happier. Avid is very focused on what it does, it's essentially and editor only.
 
has 5.1 surround too. Pretty cool.
I have an Avid Adrenaline HD. I have had more problems with it than I should at it's price point. It has potential but it hasn't the stability the good ole Media Composer use to be known for.
Xpress Pro is a fine app. I havn't a single beef with it at it's price point. I have used both it and Vegas though and can tell you I just don't know what you'd gain, other than Avid experience by going to it from Vegas. You'd be buying experience with going with Xpress Pro. Marketability. Something to put on your reume. You'll also have the comfort and confidence to go into virtually any edit suite ready to rock. DS wouldn't even be greek to you, just a bit different.

Take a looksy at FCP too, man. Undeniably a huge amount of bang for the buck.
 
grinner said:
Take a looksy at FCP too, man. Undeniably a huge amount of bang for the buck.
Click to expand...

True, but since he's a Vegas user, you just added the price of a G5 to his cost (or at least an iMac). :)
 
This is a nice thread, thanks for the good info.

I'm in a similar situation except where I'm deciding whether to start editing on Avid or Vegas. Could you explain the workflow related to avid? It sounds like you need to buy other programs to handle an "audio workstation, a compositing program, and a DVD authoring app." Thanks a lot.
 
There are a lot of different workflows. This is mine, perhaps it will give you an idea and help answer your questions:

Shoot with the DVX. Capture with Avid over firewire. Edit with Avid until I have picture lock. Determine what clips (if any) require compositing work. Export those clips as Quicktime Reference. Open Combusion. Create a new Workspace and import the Quicktime reference file into that Workspace. Apply graphic/composite/whatever as necessary. Render the final product out of Combusion as a Quicktime Animation file. Import the QT animation file back into Avid, drop it on the timeline at the appropriate place. Create a special sequence within Avid and apply a timecode window to the video track. Export each audio track as a seperate Aiff file and export the video (with timecode window) as a Quicktime Reference. Open ProTools and create a new project. Import the Aiff files into seperate tracks in ProTools and import the Quicktime film into a video track in ProTools. Begin audio editing. Add tracks for foley, ADR, sound effects, music, whatever. Once the audio editing is complete, Bounce the audio to disk as a stereo BWF. Import the BWF into Avid. Create a new sequence with my picture locked vided and my BWF audio. Check for sync errors. Export that entire sequence as a Quicktime Reference. Open Sorenson Squeeze. Encode to MPEG-2. Open DVD-Lab, author DVD.

And that's just what works for me. Some variations can include using Boris Red for effect, which works with Avid's plug-in architecture (instead of exporting QT and importing in the effects program, you just drop a Boris effect on the timeline, and that Opens Red's interface. Do you work, close Red, and the effect is automatically on the timeline). You can also get DVTookKit for ProTools with will let you export your sequence as an OMF and import that into ProTools. This will keep you edits in the ProTools session which is a tremendous timesaver. I'd definitely use the DVTookit option, execpt that it's an expensive plug-in, and I refuse to pay for it because in my opinion the software should work like that inherently.

Also I'm in the process of transitioning completely to Mac, so my workflow will change dramatically soon. OK ... maybe not dramatically, I'll probably just use DVD Studio Pro instead of DVD-Lab in the future. :)

The reason I work this was is partially habit and partially by choice. Avid was the first NLE that was put in front of me, and as a result I learned things the Avid way before trying anything else, so it's a bit of a mental block. My first thought is always "Well, Avid doesn't work like that." Also, I really like the way that Avid works. I'm very comfortable with their interface. Having the process segmented across different programs also allows me to work on multiple things at once. If I'm working with someone else, I can hand off the locked picture to my ProTools-equiped sound guy while I keep working on the compositing for the piece. Things like that.

Also, generally speaking, you get more functionality from seperate apps. Since Autodesk specializes in compositing programs, you're going to get a more robust system than Sony adding effects as a part of Vegas. That is, of course, a generalization, and there are exceptions to every rule.

Hope that helps.
 
Vegas

Vegas

Using dVtoolkit is nice but it is only supported with Protools LE and up and not M-powered PT in which I use for sequencing. I find using Vegas to be quick and alot easier than Avid. Since Vegas accepts so many import formats that it makes using PT and Vegas a joy. I also use Wavelab as my editor which can be directly hooked up to vegas in a similar preferences config. Then just add DVD architect with 5.1 burn capability and it is pretty much a done deal. I also find that Vegas is a lot easier on your computer and ram needs vs Avid. That is why I switched from Avid to Vegas since Avid 4.3 to Vegas 5. Now that I have 6.0 it is even better.
 
You said in one of the earlier posts that you could cut on Avid Express then take it to a higher end Avid for finishing. Could you give a quick and dirty rundown on the high end Avids and whatt you get at what price point?

Thanks!
 
Gopher_Greene said:
You said in one of the earlier posts that you could cut on Avid Express then take it to a higher end Avid for finishing. Could you give a quick and dirty rundown on the high end Avids and whatt you get at what price point?
Click to expand...

Quick and dirty:

Xpress Pro + Mojo gives you low-end uncompressed SD captured through Composite or componet cables.

Media Composer Adrenaline (around $25k--I think). Uncompressed SD through a large option of inputs. Compressed HD editing. I'm not sure if it can do uncompressed HD.

Symphony Nitris (around $90k). Uncompressed HD editing, plus all the other stuff from Media Composer and Xpress Pro.

The benefit to taking the project from Xpress Pro to a higher system for finishing is having more resolution options. Cut in DV25 on Xpress, finish in uncomressed HD on Symphony. This is of course only if your project needs such a thing. For most of us buying a Media Composer or a Symphony isn't an option, but buying some time on one at a post house is feasilble.
 
I moving from Vegas to Avid. I learned Avid in school and haven't touched it since, now I'm getting the HVX and looking for a solution to do industrial and commercial work, and maybe some indie film work.

Would I still need to go to a high end machine to finish if I have something like this;

Avid Xpress Studio HD Complete - Audio and Video Software and Hardware Bundle - Xpress Pro, Pro Tools LE, Avid 3D, Avid FX, DVD by Sonic Mojo and Digi 002 - Win

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...153&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation
 
Gopher_Greene said:
I moving from Vegas to Avid. I learned Avid in school and haven't touched it since, now I'm getting the HVX and looking for a solution to do industrial and commercial work, and maybe some indie film work.

Would I still need to go to a high end machine to finish if I have something like this;

Avid Xpress Studio HD Complete - Audio and Video Software and Hardware Bundle - Xpress Pro, Pro Tools LE, Avid 3D, Avid FX, DVD by Sonic Mojo and Digi 002 - Win

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...153&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation
Click to expand...

I have that exact setup running on an HP XW800 with 3GB of ram an a 1.5 TB drive array.

It rocks.

I also have FCPro on a PowerBook and an AJA io LA external box.

So if you have any questions about either I can answer them.

I've been on Avid since 1991.

Matt G
 
Thanks guys I appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions. This setup is with in my budget and covers both video and sound. But is it enough to finish commercials. Will I be able to color correct and add lower 3rds and 3d graphics? or will I need a symphony level machine?
 
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