Fresnel with a softbox not optimal?

T

themagichoof

Active member
I'm reading different opinions on the subject of using a fresnel with a softbox compared to using an open-face type light with a softbox. The argument is that a fresnel lens light will leave a 'hot spot' in the soft box which I think is basically lighting up a a small spot of the box and leaving the rest of it uneven in intensity. So they say to get something that's more of a diffuse light to begin with.

With a fresnel you could just open it up and let it flood 100% and to me that seems like the problem will be solved, but some still think it'll leave that hot spot. So my question to you is, are people really just being too particular about this and it's really nothing to be concerned about?

It would be nice to have an Arri fresnel with a Chimera since I'd be able to use the Arri in other applications, but I do admit, the price of a Tota looks great and if it will seriously be THAT drastic of a difference, I'll get the Tota for a more even/diffuse spread of the softbox. Another thing is that I think the Arri will last longer and will provide more bang for my buck. But I'd rather go for quality here, so whatever it takes to get it looking the best and doing it right.... decisions decisions.
 
A fresnel is a focused even beam for the most part, so it makes sense that using it on a softbox is not going to allow a lot of internal bouncing to come out even on the other side. A open face light source seems like a better option for softer even light out of a softbox.

People are right to say it might be "uneven" but who says "uneven" isn't desired?

Once you reduce the intensity of the fresnel in the soft box to match the exposure you would have had with the open face in a soft box, think about the net effect for a second. If you set it up so your subject is get the exact same level of exposure, the fresnel/soft-box is going to fall-off faster and wrap around your subject more whereas with the open face/soft-box you will get a more even light across your subject.

In photography, this is like using an umbrella to either bounce your light or shoot through it.

The difference is "artistic" and a matter of personal preference and style. Borrow some lights and go out and try and see what you like best...
 
Hmm... you know what, that makes sense, it can be used artistically. I'm more concerned with getting the light under control so maybe a fresnel can even help in that area. I'm positive it'll look ok, but still not sure if a Tota would be more suitable. I won't be able to borrow any lights, I'll have to just buy them and I don't think there are any places out there that rent that are close to me. I guess I might as well go with a fresnel into a softbox for now, and sometime in the future if that's not working too well and I've got that hot spot problem, I can always pick up a cheap Tota for $125 if it's really causing that much of a problem. I think I'd rather go for a fresnel anyway since it's more versatile and it'll allow me to experiment a bit more than just being limited to a Tota with a softbox.
 
Read up on use of large diffusion panels too, and you'll actually see that these can be used to create different levels of soft-light by keeping your panel in the same place and simply moving your light closer or further away.

Panels are used way more than people think, and they are an easy way to create large sources of soft light when needed.
 
Arri fresnels work fine with a softbox. Remember you can "focus" the beam wide. This issue would have more to do with the size of the softbox relative to the light. If you look at a Chimera catalogue, there are differing depths to different series of softboxes which change the distance of the diffuser to the light. So size the box properly to the source and IMHO, this is a non-issue.

Your mileage may vary, and no doubt, someone will have a different take.

Grant
 
Yep, looks like I'll be paying a little more for a deeper Chimera, but that's ok, I'd rather spend a few extra bucks and get high quality gear. Thanks :)
 
I don't use softboxes with fresnels but with the inside baffle in use and the lamp flooded out and a reasonably deep box I don't believe there would be any hot spots.
 
slondon said:
I don't use softboxes with fresnels but with the inside baffle in use and the lamp flooded out and a reasonably deep box I don't believe there would be any hot spots.
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Yeah, I was going to say, use the baffle and you should be fine. It'll cut a little more light, but the light will be softer and more even.
 
On most fresnels, you can also pop the lens out fairly quickly to get a bit closer to an open face fixture. Fresnels just aren't very efficient - they're made to make that soft-hard beam of light and they waste some lumens getting there. But chances are, once you've invested in a box that can handle 650-1k (pricey softbox!) you should be able to get speed rings for different lights as you add 'em.

Personally, I prefer diffusion panels and use black felt to block off the sides if needed. Softboxes are ridiculously expensive for their limited uses. For the price of one or two hot-light chimeras you could buy a big Westcott Srim Jim rig and have tons of lighting options, in the same storage space. And the Westcott gear has a wealth of add-on fabrics & parts - or you can have your granny sew you up all kinds of cool panels for it.
 
slondon said:
I don't use softboxes with fresnels but with the inside baffle in use and the lamp flooded out and a reasonably deep box I don't believe there would be any hot spots.
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+1 on using soft boxes with internal baffles. Fresnels, by design, keep the hot bulb a sufficient distance from the interior baffle. Westcott is making some nice soft boxes too, with improved materials and choice of shapes. Just match them up to your fixture with the appropriate speed rings.
 
Chimera make very nice products, probably the best. But as Eric said, Westcott is making some decent products on a nicer budget, especially in the larger sizes. The real bummer on softboxes is if you also want eggcrates. They add a considerable amount to the cost.

One note about Arris. When mounting larger softboxes on Arri lights up to 1000w, sometimes the yoke tensioning device isn't up to the task. I have done a few things to help support the box, but haven't come up with a long term solution other than using flos more.

Grant
 
ggrantly said:
Chimera make very nice products, probably the best. But as Eric said, Westcott is making some decent products on a nicer budget, especially in the larger sizes. The real bummer on softboxes is if you also want eggcrates. They add a considerable amount to the cost.

One note about Arris. When mounting larger softboxes on Arri lights up to 1000w, sometimes the yoke tensioning device isn't up to the task. I have done a few things to help support the box, but haven't come up with a long term solution other than using flos more.

Grant
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Just so you know, they actually have speed rings that have a baby pin at the bottom, that way you can support your softbox with another stand if need be. It also seems like it would be a good place for a baby sidearm and a gobo head and arm though.
 
Michael Carter said:
.... I prefer diffusion panels and use black felt to block off the sides if needed. Softboxes are ridiculously expensive for their limited uses. For the price of one or two hot-light chimeras you could buy a big Westcott Srim Jim rig and have tons of lighting options, in the same storage space. And the Westcott gear has a wealth of add-on fabrics & parts - or you can have your granny sew you up all kinds of cool panels for it.
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Michael I was waiting for you to jump in! I know you are fan of panels, and I as I continue to bang my head against the wall having "every" type of light for "every" type of situation, I'm looking to get some panels in my arsenal. :)

themagichoof, what are you hoping to light with your softbox, have you also considered the size you will need?
 
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