Fraud Help

Dillon Novak

Dillon Novak

Well-known member
I need help with a transaction over paypal, or anything. Since there hasn't been a post on the Fraud forum, i figured i wouldn't get that help any time soon.

i have a person who would like to buy my camera off of craigslist and this is the conversation

"Hello, I am very sorry for the delay in response, been very busy. I am currently out of the country and will like to send the camera over to my brother, he just established a studio in west Africa recently. I will appreciate it if you can go a little lower on the price Around $4000, plus $160 for shipping. If this is ok send me a paypal money request of $4,160 so i can make the payment. Here's my paypal ID stephdawson1@live.com . I will pay you via paypal and add extra $160 for the shipping expenses. If this can be arranged just send me the paypal money request to my paypal email and also include the shipping fees but if you don't have a paypal account you can easily set up one, it's free www.paypal.com. I will prefer shipment to be made through USPS Express Mail International. Here's my paypal ID stephdawson1@live.com "


Should i do it? i really want this deal to work but it seems a little fishy, i just want to make sure there's no way they could be scamming me.
 
DONT DO IT! Nigerian scammer. I believe Nigeria is the biggest hotspot for scams...
Someone tried to scam me via craigslist over the summmer, saying something similar to this.

It was a soccer mom in delaware whose son was in west africa with her father for the summer. She wanted my Nikon D40 sent with fast shipping ASAP. I knew it was too good to be true when the person would agree with everything I said within a heartbeat.

It was scary though because everything seemed so legit. Including the "email from paypal" that they had sent to me which said my payment will be sent once I sent the item...

Again, sorry to burst the bubble, but DON'T DO IT!
 
Almost all of these " I need to buy it for someone else and ship it overseas" scams are SCAMS.


Most scammers will use a money order or a cashier's check. These are mostly always counterfeit, but your bank will accept them at first. Even Paypal will at times. Then when they bounce, your bank will come to you for the money.

Paypal will freeze your money in the paypal account for up to 30 days for almost any reason. All the guy has to do is file a complaint that you did not send the camera and paypal will freeze the money. If you have withdrawn it then Paypal will take it back from your checking account. After 30 days they may still keep the money and return it to him if their "investigation" does not show that you have proof you sent it. This proof is hard to come by in the USA, much less overseas. Paypal will try to get money from an empty checking account. You may get a overdraft with the bank.

I would not sell it at all to him.
It is better to sell it to someone that maybe gets it for a few hundred less and you get to keep the money.

Craigslist is really best for local deals.
Ebay and paypal do protect you somewhat, but craigslist has NO protection.
There are people that have figured ways to corrupt paypal.

Craigslist=Cash only, local only , meet at starbucks...never at his or your house.
Ebay= use paypal= inside USA for large sales and purchases, and international for small sales and purchases.
DVXuser= look at the person's history here, and be smart about when you send the gear.

You can use other sites such as escrow.com, NEVER believe anyone that says PAYPAL has an escrow service. They do not.
 
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MikeyPOTG said:
DONT DO IT! Nigerian scammer. I believe Nigeria is the biggest hotspot for scams...
Someone tried to scam me via craigslist over the summmer, saying something similar to this.

It was a soccer mom in delaware whose son was in west africa with her father for the summer. She wanted my Nikon D40 sent with fast shipping ASAP. I knew it was too good to be true when the person would agree with everything I said within a heartbeat.

It was scary though because everything seemed so legit. Including the "email from paypal" that they had sent to me which said my payment will be sent once I sent the item...

Again, sorry to burst the bubble, but DON'T DO IT!
Click to expand...

Thanks man i wont do it haha

that was very helpful
 
MikeyPOTG said:
It was scary though because everything seemed so legit. Including the "email from paypal" that they had sent to me which said my payment will be sent once I sent the item...

Again, sorry to burst the bubble, but DON'T DO IT!
Click to expand...

To repeat: PAYPAL does not have an escrow service. They will NEVER hold money until you ship.
 
I don't understand. The guy says he's willing to pay you $4000 plus shipping. If you're ok with the price, who cares what happens to the camera after you've received payment?

What am I missing here?
 
atlfilmguy said:
NEVER believe anyone that says PAYPAL has an escrow service. They do not.
Click to expand...

And don't see anywhere in the guy's quote where he implies that they do. And while your right that craigslist has no protection, Dillon doesn't need any, the guy out of the country does. If he's willing to forgo it then it's all good. Just wait until payment clears, withdraw the funds, and send the camera.

By all means, decline the offer if your not comfortable with it, but i dont see anything fishy here. If he didn't mention he was buying it for his brother in West Africa it would read like any other offer and no one would care... right?
 
The thing is I don't know if i can safely get the money before i send the camera, if i could hell yeah, i would do this because i would have the money and things would be right as rain, but how can i be sure that's gonna happen. I'd rather know the facts, than risk getting ripped off.
 
I bought and shipped a cheaper item ($30) to a guy in Russia because he couldn't order it there. Worked the same way. I billed him for all the costs in paypal, he promptly paid it, I purchased the item with his money and shipped with his money.

I think with PayPal you're pretty safe. You could also require a 10 day wait period after you receive the money to make sure its legit and clears... then proceed with the transaction.
 
I thought with paypal you're safe too... but honestly, I'd stay far far away from this idea. Especially if it's getting mailed to Nigeria (the same spot a scammer asked me to mail something to).

As far as I know, it works like this. You get an email from paypal saying a certain amount of money is going to be sent to you after they confirm you send this item. You send the item (which you'll never get back) and then the payment bounces or something like that.
So then you lose the item and lose the money.
 
"Currently out of the country..." is the hallmark of the con man. There's dozens of Craigslist scams that follow this guys theme, he just has a PayPal-based angle.

Like Jason said, run away.
 
but seriously you guys, I'm missing HOW you could get screwed here. Of course you dont send the camera before he pays. he pays, it clears, you ship. Thats how it always works. The fact that its international is irrelevant.

There's IS risk here, but the risk if for the buyer, not the seller. I would NEVER buy from this guy, but if you're selling you're in control.

I just sold almost $3000 worth of stuff just last week. he paid with paypal, I had to wait a few days for it to clear, but then I had the cash. I could be a dick and not ship, but again, that's my call. Whether I'm good or evil, I still have the cash. (BTW, I shipped lol)

Someone explain to me how this could go wrong?
 
Cheesesailor77 said:
but seriously you guys, I'm missing HOW you could get screwed here.

Someone explain to me how this could go wrong?
Click to expand...

This is an easy one. You get screwed because the 'buyer' wants it sent to somebody else. This implies it will NOT be the paypal confirmed address. You ship to a non-paypal confirmed address, the buyer says the item never showed up and PayPal refunds their money. They have camera + money, you have nothing.
 
Yup, Texanite is right, that´s how it works. Google "PayPal" and you will find lots of horror stories. If the buyer´s credit card or the backup funding turns out to be false PayPal will get it´s money back from the seller. In oder to do so, they will go all the way into your bank account. It doesn´t matter if you already transfered your money from your PayPal account or not. You will than have to prove that you shipped your item to a confirmed address and if you can´t you are out of luck (and your money and your camera).
 
mbwkrause said:
Yup, Texanite is right, that´s how it works. Google "PayPal" and you will find lots of horror stories. If the buyer´s credit card or the backup funding turns out to be false PayPal will get it´s money back from the seller. In oder to do so, they will go all the way into your bank account. It doesn´t matter if you already transfered your money from your PayPal account or not. You will than have to prove that you shipped your item to a confirmed address and if you can´t you are out of luck (and your money and your camera).
Click to expand...



well what if you take the precatutions to do what this guy said

Seller:
Videotape the item/s before boxing it. If possible, include a demonstration of it's working condition and include video footage of the current date. Take additional live video of the items as you are boxing it.

Buyer:
Take live videotape footage of the shipping label of the parcel upon receipt, then rotate the shipping box 360 degrees to document the condition of the box upon receipt. Of course, if the box is damaged, do not open it - create a claim with the shipping carrier. With the camera still running, zoom back, open the box and zoom in while removing the item/s from the box. Physically inspect the item for obvious damages. If possible, turn on the item to demonstrate its operation upon receipt.

Yeah, I know this is less than ideal and I certainly wouldn't do it for medium or low-cost items, nor would I do so for most dvxusers since we're almost all good folks. However, for pricey items with uncertain dudes, it's something to consider (although personally, I usually would pass selling/buying from dubious sellers/buyers).

"

would that clear any fraud if you also video taped the receipt, and shipping info and the product?
 
It's really scary that there are this many people who don't understand how easy it is for the SELLER to get screwed and/or defrauded through Paypal!

In case there's ANY DOUBT... this is an easy hose job. IT DOESN'T EVEN MATTER IF THE PAYMENT COMES FROM THE SAME THIRD PARTY THAT YOU WILL ALSO BE SHIPPING TO! NO THIRD PARTIES, PERIOD.

Paypal is AT LEAST as much in favor of the buyer as the seller. As it is now all a buyer has to do is say they never got the item and Paypal will refund their money, pending the investigation. This is no joke.

If you agree to do an unprotected Paypal sale... you are stupid. Period.

FURTHER... if you agree to do a PROTECTED Paypal sale to a third party... you are stupid. Period.

Even if ALL checks out according to Paypal policy, and you sell to a confirmed buyer through a confirmed address, but it is NOT the actual buyer and address that you had as confirmation to complete the sale... the person receiving the package can claim fraud, or identity theft... and/or not receiving the package on top of that... EVEN if you have a tracking number... and they can get out of paying for your item.

The ONLY way you are safe in Paypal selling is in transactions that start AND end, with the party you've been in contact with... and that person is Paypal verified, and confirmed address... and that the package can be directly tracked all the way to that person's door, complete with their signature for the package... and all that is pretty much impossible with international transactions as it is. Why do you think MOST ebay auctions say "USA ONLY" or deny specific countries? Do you think they just don't want to sell the item that bad? NO... it's because they've been burned.

I'm speaking from experience... even with a (long ago banned) DVXuser member. Same situation... very complicated and involving confirmed addresses and ID verified buyer, that later denied any involvement as the package was waiting for him to pick it up at the post office... complete with signature required... trust me it sounded legit and they almost pulled it off... all the while the trusted party was free to claim ignorance of the scam, and get the item, while the other party could also claim no knowledge of the deal, file a fraudulent charge, and get his money back.

Meanwhile I'd be out the items, and then later, out the money as Paypal refunds the 3rd party.

PUT THE BURDEN OF TRUST ON THE OTHER PERSON, THROUGH WESTERN UNION, OR CASHIER'S CHECK / BANK DRAFT... WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU WILL WAIT 3 DAYS BEYOND THE CHECK CLEARING BEFORE SHIPPING. IF IT'S LEGIT, THEY WILL TAKE THE RISK. SIMPLE.
 
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Dillon Novak said:
well what if you take the precatutions to do what this guy said

Seller:
Videotape the item/s before boxing it. If possible, include a demonstration of it's working condition and include video footage of the current date. Take additional live video of the items as you are boxing it.

Buyer:
Take live videotape footage of the shipping label of the parcel upon receipt, then rotate the shipping box 360 degrees to document the condition of the box upon receipt. Of course, if the box is damaged, do not open it - create a claim with the shipping carrier. With the camera still running, zoom back, open the box and zoom in while removing the item/s from the box. Physically inspect the item for obvious damages. If possible, turn on the item to demonstrate its operation upon receipt.

Yeah, I know this is less than ideal and I certainly wouldn't do it for medium or low-cost items, nor would I do so for most dvxusers since we're almost all good folks. However, for pricey items with uncertain dudes, it's something to consider (although personally, I usually would pass selling/buying from dubious sellers/buyers).

"

would that clear any fraud if you also video taped the receipt, and shipping info and the product?
Click to expand...


wrong. paypal will not care what kind of high tech evidence you have. if the credit card company does a chargeback, paypal will yank the money out of your account and you have zero recourse unless you shipped to a confirmed usa address. even then it is a battle. your idea sounds like it would make for ironclad proof that you did your part but paypal is not a mom and pop business you can walk into and straighten things out. they have idiots running customer service and they simply don't care if they lose your business. accepting paypal for online transactions is generally painless and easy. however, you gotta watch your back. you are assuming the same risks as any business that accepts credit cards. you have to be prepared to lose money if things don't go your way. personally i wouldn't accept paypal for anything over $2000 or so. sell locally for cash or within the usa for certified funds thru an escrow.
 
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