I’m starting to record dual-system sound using a Shure FP33 mixer providing output to both a Panasonic AF100 and a Tascam HD-P2. The FP33 can provide either line level or mic level output and both the AF100 and the HD-P2 can accept either input. Posts I’ve read seem to suggest that the FP33 to HD-P2 connection should be line level and possibly the FP33 to AF100 connection as well. I would appreciate advice. Thanks.
FP33 to AF100 and HD-P2
- Thread starter Jon Gallo
- Start date
GaryNattrass
Veteran
I would keep all outputs from a mixer at line level if the receiving recorder or camera also has line level as it's input.
That way there is less chance of any noise or buzzes being introduced in any cable chain, doing a line up would be also good practice to make sure that the signal path is at the correct level from he mixer and to any device inputs.
Personally I also like to check levels from the source end by feeding a -50 1khz tone down the mic cable and all the way through the mixer chain mic inputs to the end line inputs on a camera or recording devices.
That way there is less chance of any noise or buzzes being introduced in any cable chain, doing a line up would be also good practice to make sure that the signal path is at the correct level from he mixer and to any device inputs.
Personally I also like to check levels from the source end by feeding a -50 1khz tone down the mic cable and all the way through the mixer chain mic inputs to the end line inputs on a camera or recording devices.
I used to run the same-ish setup with DigiBeta and a DA-P1 (the DAT predecessor to the HD-P2). Use the XLR outs at line-level to the AF-100.
The HD-P2's labels are misleading, as it makes it look like the XLR ins can be mic- or line-level. This is not true (though the DAT recorder could do this). Since the XLRs are mic-level only, use the 1/8" tape out of the FP33 to the stereo RCA line-level ins on the HD-P2.
The catch with running double-system is monitoring. The FP33 has a return input for remote monitoring of the record device, but it has only the one. You can switch the headphone feed from the mixer to the return. So you need to decide which is your primary audio recording device and keep your ears on that the most.
The HD-P2's labels are misleading, as it makes it look like the XLR ins can be mic- or line-level. This is not true (though the DAT recorder could do this). Since the XLRs are mic-level only, use the 1/8" tape out of the FP33 to the stereo RCA line-level ins on the HD-P2.
The catch with running double-system is monitoring. The FP33 has a return input for remote monitoring of the record device, but it has only the one. You can switch the headphone feed from the mixer to the return. So you need to decide which is your primary audio recording device and keep your ears on that the most.
Rick R
Veteran
"Personally I also like to check levels from the source end by feeding a -50 1khz tone down the mic cable and all the way through the mixer chain mic inputs to the end line inputs on a camera or recording devices. "
-- You must probably mean -20dB.. typo no doubt.
To clarify. on a FP33, the test tone would be set to read 0VU on it's meter. The subsequent recorder would then be set at -20dBFS, assuming it has a +4dBu XLR input. Both devices would be switched to line.
-- You must probably mean -20dB.. typo no doubt.
To clarify. on a FP33, the test tone would be set to read 0VU on it's meter. The subsequent recorder would then be set at -20dBFS, assuming it has a +4dBu XLR input. Both devices would be switched to line.
Many thanks to all.
Alex: While doing some additional research I found the following quote from Oade: "Tascam HD-P2: The record level control in the HD-P2 is unique in that it actually allows you to set levels by adjusting the gain (this is how much the preamp amplifies or increases the signal from the microphone) of the mic preamp with a mic preamp gain control that is continuously adjustable. This insures that your signal quality is always optimized for the best possible signal quality by design, a very good design ! If you are new to the HD-P2, it's input selection labeling can be confusing. When the deck is set to line in, that selects the RCA inputs while the setting labeled mic selects the XLR inputs. You record XLR line in by setting the deck to XLR in and the PAD to -20dB. The controls might be more properly labeled with the LINE/MIC switches labeled RCA/XLR and the Left/Right PAD switches labeled MIC/LINE." If Oade is correct, we can get XLR line in and by setting the pre-amp/gain controls at 0, it would apparently bypass the preamp entirely. Jon
Alex: While doing some additional research I found the following quote from Oade: "Tascam HD-P2: The record level control in the HD-P2 is unique in that it actually allows you to set levels by adjusting the gain (this is how much the preamp amplifies or increases the signal from the microphone) of the mic preamp with a mic preamp gain control that is continuously adjustable. This insures that your signal quality is always optimized for the best possible signal quality by design, a very good design ! If you are new to the HD-P2, it's input selection labeling can be confusing. When the deck is set to line in, that selects the RCA inputs while the setting labeled mic selects the XLR inputs. You record XLR line in by setting the deck to XLR in and the PAD to -20dB. The controls might be more properly labeled with the LINE/MIC switches labeled RCA/XLR and the Left/Right PAD switches labeled MIC/LINE." If Oade is correct, we can get XLR line in and by setting the pre-amp/gain controls at 0, it would apparently bypass the preamp entirely. Jon
Oade is partially correct. There's still a risk of actually frying the input circuits on the HD-P2 by pumping line-level into the XLR. I know because I've seen it happen, and a TASCAM repair tech said never to put line-level signals through the XLR inputs.
Besides, using the -20dB pad switch and taking the input gain down doesn't actually bypass the pre-amps... it just turns them all the way down.
Besides, using the -20dB pad switch and taking the input gain down doesn't actually bypass the pre-amps... it just turns them all the way down.
GaryNattrass
Veteran
NO typo if you read what I said it was sending a -50 signal down the mic line or cable. i.e simulating a mic level signal coming all the way through the chain and not just sending tone from the mixer which you quite rightly say is -20. I have a low cost behringer cable tester that allows me to do this and it helps to establish a good gain structure though the whole signal chain inc the mic cables.
I would also not think that the shure mixer VU corresponds to 0vu=-20dbfs as most VU meters are set-up for -4db VU=-20dbfs
Personally I have re-callibrated all my shure M367 mixers so that 0vu=-18dbfs (UK BBC spec) (-20 in the USA)