Forgive me, Idiot question.

Ryan Patrick O'Hara

Ryan Patrick O'Hara

Veteran
Please forgive me! I did a quick search and can't find the exact answer to my question. I figure with all of my past posts, I can ask the occasional noob question:

I shot a film in 1080/24p but it keeps coming up 29.93 on the timeline!!! Why?! I am so confused and sick of HVX and 1080/24p being a pain in the ass with interlace recording and etc.

If anyone can PLEASE break down the basics of getting 1080/24p to true 24p, I would be most appreciative. (PS I did not shoot 24pa)

Thanks.

-Ryan
 
What are you editing in? If it's FCP, you'll have to run it through CinemaTools.

When editing with FCP, always shoot 24pA.
 
I believe you need to be shooting 24PN.


EDIT:
<Emily Litella> Nevermind.
 
Last edited:
Blaine said:
I believe you need to be shooting 24PN.
Click to expand...

You can only do that in 720p mode. In 1080, you need to shoot 1080p24pa. Final Cut will remove the pulldown once you log and transfer.

If you shot just plain 1080p24p, then you will have to use cinematools. :beer:
 
Doh!

Thanks! I'll have to look into cinema tools. I didn't shoot PA! Damn it.

Thanks for the response! Much appreciated.


To McGee: Long live the CCD!!! lol!
 
PPS:

Wait, then how come it's called 1080/24, if the 24 is actually 29?

A little confused. When I call up the director I worked with and tell him it needs to have a pulldown and he accuses me of not shooting true 24... what do I say? I set the camera to 1080/24 but not knowing it had to be "pa"......


Anyway, I am VERY tired of clients calling me up after a shoot and wanting to get rid of the interlaced lines and the 29 timeline and etc.

Can anyone help me just explain what the hell Panasonic does with the 1080/24p codec? I'm sick of being accused of not shooting progressive or 24 fps!!!! Why the HELL can't I find an easy explanation of why it's 29fps timeline and interlaced!

*Sigh* I know how it works but just need a good explanation that is easy to understand for the clients. Since I am not an editor, I don't know all the answers to post questions.
 
Last edited:
Can somebody please tell me how to get the 1080/24p footage to a non interlaced 24p timeline on FCP? I am not a post person and I have a client who is really freaking out about this. I know FCP better recognized PA but for god sakes P is just fine, right?

Please help with cinema tools and FCP help.

Need it bad. I'm not an editor!
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
Can somebody please tell me how to get the 1080/24p footage to a non interlaced 24p timeline on FCP? I am not a post person and I have a client who is really freaking out about this. I know FCP better recognized PA but for god sakes P is just fine, right?

Please help with cinema tools and FCP help.

Need it bad. I'm not an editor!
Click to expand...

Before a big long winded post about how to take it through cinema tools, a question.

Whats your intended output?

24p is an excellent recording mode if youre destined for DVD. On your timeline it looks interlaced, yes. But as soon as you export and play on any DVD player, it looks just like 24pa - there are no interlaced lines.

So?
 
Thank you for the response!

As stated, I am not the editor. I just have the occasional client who calls or emails me much later saying "my footage is interlaced and the footage is 30fps!" When I know I shot it 1080/24p.

I really don't know anything about post workflows and editing. All I know is he wanted 1080/24p so I gave him such. I realize now, and knowing he has FCP that 1080pa would have been a better choice, but surely the footage can still be processed to be a 1080/24p timeline and footy.

I just don't know how and need to give some answers so I stop looking like the bad guy.

*Sigh* I'm never straying from my familiar 720pn ever again. What a headache!








***So I guess the best question to ask is how to get the footage deinterlace at 24fps?***

I've had editors who have done this with no problem in the past on many of my most successful films. Recently it seems that such caliber editors are not on hand to tackle the issue and it is being thrusted unto me. I don't mind helping but I feel incredibly under a misplaced pressure to correct a non-mistake. I hope the current director finds this post in his search for answers and see's my attempt to help him. Please help me, help him.
 
Last edited:
Ryan,
Ok c'mon let's clarify and clear this up. Are you editing this your self or did you give the footage to your client in this case?
Also, if you did give it to your client, how? (P2 Footage on a data DVD or Hard Drive or...?)
Because I mean if you shot in 1080i @24fps you should be able to edit as such.
And we can always ask Ken Stone what the best way would be. (As long as is FCP related)

--Luis
 
Noel Evans said:
24p is an excellent recording mode if youre destined for DVD. On your timeline it looks interlaced, yes. But as soon as you export and play on any DVD player, it looks just like 24pa - there are no interlaced lines.
Click to expand...

Well, no -- for DVD and FCP, you definitely want to shoot 24pA, edit as 24p, and output as 23.976. If you shoot 24p standard and edit/output as 29.97 for DVD, you'll either see interlace artifacts on a progressive display, or you'll lose resolution in the deinterlace process.
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
I really don't know anything about post workflows and editing. All I know is he wanted 1080/24p so I gave him such. I realize now, and knowing he has FCP that 1080pa would have been a better choice, but surely the footage can still be processed to be a 1080/24p timeline and footy.
Click to expand...

Go into Cinema Tools>Help>Cinema Tools Manual and then search for Removing 2:3:3:2 or 2:3:2:3 Pulldown. Is probably on or around page 212.

You're removing 2:3:2:3 pulldown, not 2:3:3:2.


*Sigh* I'm never straying from my familiar 720pn ever again. What a headache!
Click to expand...
It's not a headache. Just shoot 24pA.


***So I guess the best question to ask is how to get the footage deinterlace at 24fps?***
Click to expand...
Don't fall into the trap of thinking of it as "deinterlacing" the footage. That's not what you want to do. You want to remove the pulldown -- not the same thing at all. "Deinterlacing" loses you resolution. Removing pulldown doesn't.
 
Best advice I can give is learn the camera and all its modes before going into a project (I mean this in a constructive way).
 
Carlos Corral said:
Best advice I can give is learn the camera and all its modes before going into a project (I mean this in a constructive way).
Click to expand...

Agreed. And believe me, now I know.


So after the pull down, the interlace lines go away and I can have it on 24p timeline in FCP? Or is there more?

And yes I am not editing, and the client has the cards on a harddrive. It is in the digital card form with contents and last clip , etc.
 
Hey Ryan, the HVX does not shoot true 24 frames exactly per second, but rather the sensor runs at 23.98 hrtz for pull down into 59.94i using dropframe timecode. Why that is is beyond the scope of this thread and is very involved.

As you know, 24pA was engineered to provide as easy way to remove pulldown in post.
You have to remove the 3:2 pulldown from the 24p footage, which is more complicated. I've only had to do that a couple of times and you need cinema tools or something along those lines.

24pA means you simply discard the split frame in post and walla, you've got 23.98p.

but someone will have to walk you through removal of 3:2 pulldown.
 
I don't use Final Cut, I use adobe premiere, but I assume when the footage is ingested into a timeline meant for 24pA, pulldown is automatically removed and the the frame rate is 23.98, like it is when you shoot 720pN.

But with any 24p 3/2 pulldown footage, I assume final cut brings it in to a 30p timeline (really a 60i timeline) will the pulldown still in place.

That's probably why your client sees that under the info.
 
And yes, and David mentioned, make sure you're not Deinterlacing. You're removing pulldown. There's a big difference. But someone else will have to tell you how to remove pulldown in FinalCut.
 
So forgive me, but you're all saying pa is better for fcp (which I've got at this point but too late obviously)... But the 24p footage is still do-able (get on 24p timeline without interlace) right?

I fail to see how shooting 1080/24p does not yield 24p footage... even if there are a couple of extra steps needed.
 
David Jimerson said:
Well, no -- for DVD and FCP, you definitely want to shoot 24pA, edit as 24p, and output as 23.976. If you shoot 24p standard and edit/output as 29.97 for DVD, you'll either see interlace artifacts on a progressive display, or you'll lose resolution in the deinterlace process.
Click to expand...

David. Going to disagree with you here.

And I will start with - It is only necessary to process a 24p clip in cinema tools if you intend to either, do a film out on your footage or want to mix the footage with other 24fps footage that needs to be edited on a 24fps based timeline.

There are two main reasons IMO to shoot 24pa

1/ Your footage is intended for film out.
2/ If your DVD output is long and is intended for DVD, you could maintain some image quality in the mpeg compression as there are only 24 frames to deal with vs 29.97 in 24p. Ill add to that a caveat that on DVD I prefer the look of 24p and if the piece is 30 minutes to 60 minutes, this wont be an issue.

I think its important for everyone to remember that 1080i/24p footage is progressive, thats what the "p" stands for. The way it arrives there as compared to 24pa is different. The basic rule of thumb, if its going for film out, always shoot 24pa. But, if thats not the case, 24p has a place, otherwise why even include it on the camera?

24p footage is edited on a 29.97fps timeline (59.94 fields) and as such looks interlaced during your edit (even if you view that signal via a Blackmagic or Kona to an external TV, weather that be CRT, LCD or Plasma and weather that be a 24p capable screen or not - you are playing that footage from your timeline where the pulldown is not shown and no matter how its viewed will look interlaced). The pulldown flags are still there in the footage so dont need to worry. The great thing about 24p footage is - when your editing for DVD or broadcast (not film) and plan to mix in footage shot at 60i - like sports footage, footage already archived as 60i like war footage, then this footage can go straight into your timeline without any treatment. All edited together without any render or conversions.

BUT, when you export your footage to DVD or to be broadcast, the end result will show no interlacing.

And this is why I posed the question to Ryan - is this intended for film out? For if not, then you dont have to have your client run around trying to convert to true 24fps in Cinema tool.
 
Thank you so much Noel! Helps alot!

He is actually trying to edit the footage with some other camera work, which is 24p. So it needs to be on a 24p timeline.

I'm just trying to help him out because he is emailing me alot about this. I understand now that 24pa would have been better. I didn't think of it at the time. Now he has 1080/24p footage he wants in a 24p timeline and he also wants rid of the interlace lines (I know it's not interlace lines, but lets just call it that for now.)

Will the cinema tools correct both issues?

If so, I've told him to do so already but have not heard back from him.

Thank you so much. I only get this dumb every blue moon, so thanks for the help and patience.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top