For THE cleanest outdoor dialogue (narrative film) -- which mic(s) do I buy?

M

Marcus Kronfeld

New member
Hello Friends,

I want the mic that will reject all the outdoor noises we don't want in film production, even on streets with cars or trucks going by; to most cleanly capture multiple actors' dialogue, and create the simplest sound editing situation in post.

Assuming a single mic setup, I understand that it must ideally be actively boomed from above the actors, as close to the actors as camera framing allows, and face the microphone down.

However, it is unclear -- Do I want a super-cardioid, hyper-cardioid, or shotgun?

I understand that a shotgun has a tighter forward facing pickup pattern, but that is has less off-axis rejection capability than the other types of mics when it comes to lower sound frequencies. Also, it seems the most high end mics are super-cardioids. Why are they not shotguns if the patterns is tighter? Assuming the mic is being boomed properly, would the tighter pattern not result in the cleanest sound with the highest ratio of level of dialogue to level of noise?

Microphone model names would be great. I would absolutely be willing to spend $2,000 on a microphone if it will isolate the actors' voices in a public, run 'n gun situation that much better than a cheaper mic.

A million thanks to whomever should like to answer this highly specific question!
 
Even a tight mic is going to pick up loud ambient sounds to some extent.

I've worked with some very expensive boom mics like a Schoeps that cost over $4000 and although they produce clear audio they too can pick up planes, fridges, Air Conditioners, engines, etc... just the same. Some models like the Schoeps SuperCMIT 2U ($5000 mic) have a built in DSP to perform realtime noise cancellation of ambient noises like street noise, or room noise, of up to 9db which is insane. But its also $5000 dollars!

Don't forget there is a lot to also be said for the recorder/mixer and the quality of the pre-amps inside. It's not just the quality of the mic. ie.

Personally if you are only doing a few days of production in this environment I would just hire the sound crew who has all the equipment, experience and expertise of recording in these situations. Gear is expensive but knowing how to use it is just as important.

Sorry I didn't answer your question , but hopefully I've given you some food for thought.
 
Marcus Kronfeld said:
I want the mic that will reject all the outdoor noises we don't want in film production, even on streets with cars or trucks going by; to most cleanly capture multiple actors' dialogue, and create the simplest sound editing situation in post.
Click to expand...

We all want that. And it doesn't exist. There is no "magic microphone".

What you need, is a high signal to noise ratio. You get that by getting whichever mic you choose as close to the speaker's mouth as you can. In narative work, that typically means booming, often with a good lav, properly placed, as a backup.

To get rid of most of the extraneous noise, film on a sound stage -- that's what they're for. If you insist on filming at noisy locations, you're going to have to live with at least some of that noise in your dialog recordings. The laws of physics won't be denied.

Marcus Kronfeld said:
Do I want a super-cardioid, hyper-cardioid, or shotgun?
Click to expand...

Depends on your scene, your location, your actors, etc. There's no cookie-cutter answer. But one thing I can tell you is that it's extremely unlikely that you'll find a one-mic-fits-all solution. Professional sound guys have mic lockers with a lot of different mics for a reason.

Sound is more important than the visuals. Sound is more difficult than visuals. If it's an important shoot, and you won't be able to reshoot, hire a sound guy who has already climbed all the learning curves, has the equipment, and knows how to use it.
 
I concur with starcentral, there is a whole lot more to it than the microphone.
Hire an experienced audio professional.
 
Marcus Kronfeld said:
Hello Friends,

I want the mic that will reject all the outdoor noises we don't want in film production, even on streets with cars or trucks going by; to most cleanly capture multiple actors' dialogue, and create the simplest sound editing situation in post.

...!
Click to expand...
Such a magical microphone does not exist.
 
If you are shooting on the street, often you can mix takes such that the background works. If you can cross fade them in something like audition. I have done dialog on the streets of NYC and you can make it work with normal techniques. One thing I do is bring in another track or two of street background from my library. Often you can use that to "mix" takes. And of course if you have that one blasting garbage truck blow a take. If so, go again.
 
The best microphone for that purpose is called "a good sound engineer".

If you insist on a particular model, I would say the Schoeps CMIT 5U which has a very good of axis rejection and is a little over 2K$

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/405353-REG/Schoeps_CMIT_5U_CMIT5U_Shotgun_Microphone_Blue.html

The Super CMIT 2 U goes even further but as stated it's very expensive (about 4.5K$) and is a digital microphone which needs to be pluged on an AES42 input (AES3 with 10V phantom power)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._2U_SuperCMIT_Digital_Shotgun_Microphone.html
 
When it comes to capturing solid production sound it's all about the knowledge, technique, skill and talent of the PSM and Boom-Op coupled with the proper gear - and a director and producer who will actually listen to them and follow their suggestions. Then it's all about the knowledge, technique, skill and talent of the dialog editor(s) and the rerecording mixer(s) - and a director and producer who will actually listen to them and follow their suggestions.
 
There is no magic bullet for this. It's all about locations. Nothing on production will get rid of sound from external sources like cars and other people. Just shoot normally with a professional hired sound crew and then get professional sound editors, in particular a good dialogue editor, and then a good re-recording mixer to get it to work as well as can be. Sometimes ADR might be the only option for a really noisy location.

This is where it is important to hire a sound mixer in pre-production and bring them along on the location scouts so they can make you aware of any potential audio issues before you get to the point you are at now.
 
Usually the request is " I want super pro sound and my budget is $200". At least the OP isn't afraid to spend. In this case, throwing money at high end mics, while always nice, won't solve excess background. Time spent scouting and or being location flexible will.

Grant
 
I second the importance of having a good and quiet location. If I had a choice between excellent equipment and poor locations, or poor equipment and excellent locations, I would choose the latter every time.
 
Izotope RX 2 or 3 can be your friend, obviously combined with proper recording technique.

I've had instances where I've been on a busy road with an active flight path overhead and managed to get something more than useable because of it.
 
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