I've had my DVX100 for a while, and haven't used the 24pa becuase of not being able to pull a proper focus without a follow focus in a run and gun stituation. Any recomendations without spending 1000's? I'd love to shoot 24p. I don't have a field monitor. I have the varizoom monitor that that mounts on the hot shoe and it seems quite soft. Waste of money. Anyway, I just shot a trip thru the Inside Passage from Anacortes to Juneau aboard 2 pleasure Yachts. I didn't shoot in progressive and wish that I could have.
Focus in 24pa
- Thread starter mjben
- Start date
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Focus in 24pa
A follow-focus wouldn't help in run and gun, would it? That's a tool for precision focusing, repeatability, etc. You're talking about grabbing focus while shooting -- I find the DVX eminently usable for this. I mean, first of all it's hard enough to get a shot out-of-focus in the first place, what with the deep depth of field. But then you add in the great low-light sensitivity, and it's pretty easy to pull an f/8 or f/11 in most any situation (other than night shooting, of course) and that gives you near-to-infinity focus. And then with the wide angle lens...
Focus-grabbing with the DVX can be fairly simple, without an external monitor. Have the lens in manual-zoom. Take note of where your Z setting is, and your aperture. Slam the lens to full telephoto, pop the iris open, and dial the focus ring until it looks good in the LCD. Stop the iris back down while you slam the zoom ring back where it started, and you'll have a really sharp image. Takes about six seconds for the whole process. If you can get it relatively close to in-focus at full zoom and wide-open iris, then when you stop back down and zoom out, the DOF will take over and ensure you get a crisp shot.
If you're talking about trying to follow the action under telephoto & low-light conditions, well, that's a lot more challenging. Can still be done though -- remember, all the 16mm film in the world has been shot with similar circumstances. You just have to practice a lot. Learn which way the focus ring turns, so you know when your subject moves towards you, you instinctively turn the ring the right way so you don't have to "hunt". Also learn the rule about DOF, which is that DOF doesn't extend equally from the focus point: 1/3 of the depth of field extends in front of the focus point, and 2/3 extends behind. So when in doubt, err on the side of focusing closer, so that the DOF point will move closer and give you a little bit more margin of error. And if you're not sure, zoom out a little... better to have a wider-angle in-focus shot than a more-telephoto, out-of-focus shot...
A follow-focus wouldn't help in run and gun, would it? That's a tool for precision focusing, repeatability, etc. You're talking about grabbing focus while shooting -- I find the DVX eminently usable for this. I mean, first of all it's hard enough to get a shot out-of-focus in the first place, what with the deep depth of field. But then you add in the great low-light sensitivity, and it's pretty easy to pull an f/8 or f/11 in most any situation (other than night shooting, of course) and that gives you near-to-infinity focus. And then with the wide angle lens...
Focus-grabbing with the DVX can be fairly simple, without an external monitor. Have the lens in manual-zoom. Take note of where your Z setting is, and your aperture. Slam the lens to full telephoto, pop the iris open, and dial the focus ring until it looks good in the LCD. Stop the iris back down while you slam the zoom ring back where it started, and you'll have a really sharp image. Takes about six seconds for the whole process. If you can get it relatively close to in-focus at full zoom and wide-open iris, then when you stop back down and zoom out, the DOF will take over and ensure you get a crisp shot.
If you're talking about trying to follow the action under telephoto & low-light conditions, well, that's a lot more challenging. Can still be done though -- remember, all the 16mm film in the world has been shot with similar circumstances. You just have to practice a lot. Learn which way the focus ring turns, so you know when your subject moves towards you, you instinctively turn the ring the right way so you don't have to "hunt". Also learn the rule about DOF, which is that DOF doesn't extend equally from the focus point: 1/3 of the depth of field extends in front of the focus point, and 2/3 extends behind. So when in doubt, err on the side of focusing closer, so that the DOF point will move closer and give you a little bit more margin of error. And if you're not sure, zoom out a little... better to have a wider-angle in-focus shot than a more-telephoto, out-of-focus shot...
Re: Focus in 24pa
Thank You,
I appreciate your response. I will start practicing with my camera. It's all in the technique. My forte' is editing, but I have a natural feel for shooting. I been doing this video production for a few years but, the 24p and manual focus is not real comfortable to me when I'm contracted for a project. Focus is one thing that can't be fixed in post. Maybe on the other hand I need glasses. 8)
Thank You,
I appreciate your response. I will start practicing with my camera. It's all in the technique. My forte' is editing, but I have a natural feel for shooting. I been doing this video production for a few years but, the 24p and manual focus is not real comfortable to me when I'm contracted for a project. Focus is one thing that can't be fixed in post. Maybe on the other hand I need glasses. 8)
scharky
Veteran
Re: Focus in 24pa
I find that manually focusing will always give better results than leaving the camera on auto. Why, because you get to choose yourself what you want to focus on. I used the auto focus on this camera once, and that was just to say that I have used it. To get really good looking shots you need two things, and you already own the camera that gives you the best there is, when it comes to these two things, wait, make that three. First, manually focus. This is the best "DV" manually focusable camera there is (prosumer range), see Barry's post above. Second, exposure. This can sometimes be tricky with the lcd screen, I try and use the viewfinder as much as possible for setting a proper exposure balance, and don't forget your zebe's. Third, Progressive scan. There are no other cameras available that use true progressive scan (at least that compare to the dvx) and unless you are shooting in progressive scan, your only using your camera to 50% of it's ability. Don't be afraid of 24p, embrace it. There are so many things that I have shot since I bought this camera almost 6 months ago, and I know that none of those things would have looked as good as they did, had I not shot progressively. Just do it man.
I find that manually focusing will always give better results than leaving the camera on auto. Why, because you get to choose yourself what you want to focus on. I used the auto focus on this camera once, and that was just to say that I have used it. To get really good looking shots you need two things, and you already own the camera that gives you the best there is, when it comes to these two things, wait, make that three. First, manually focus. This is the best "DV" manually focusable camera there is (prosumer range), see Barry's post above. Second, exposure. This can sometimes be tricky with the lcd screen, I try and use the viewfinder as much as possible for setting a proper exposure balance, and don't forget your zebe's. Third, Progressive scan. There are no other cameras available that use true progressive scan (at least that compare to the dvx) and unless you are shooting in progressive scan, your only using your camera to 50% of it's ability. Don't be afraid of 24p, embrace it. There are so many things that I have shot since I bought this camera almost 6 months ago, and I know that none of those things would have looked as good as they did, had I not shot progressively. Just do it man.
ullanta
Veteran
Re: Focus in 24pa
[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=Events;num=1087671070;start=0#1 date=06/19/04 at 12:03:57]
Focus-grabbing with the DVX can be fairly simple, without an external monitor. Have the lens in manual-zoom. Take note of where your Z setting is, and your aperture. Slam the lens to full telephoto, pop the iris open, and dial the focus ring until it looks good in the LCD. Stop the iris back down while you slam the zoom ring back where it started, and you'll have a really sharp image. Takes about six seconds for the whole process. If you can get it relatively close to in-focus at full zoom and wide-open iris, then when you stop back down and zoom out, the DOF will take over and ensure you get a crisp shot.
[/quote]
Just curious... why manual zoom? I do this with the servo zoom mode, and don't seem to have any problems... is it just a speed issue?
-Barry
[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=Events;num=1087671070;start=0#1 date=06/19/04 at 12:03:57]
Focus-grabbing with the DVX can be fairly simple, without an external monitor. Have the lens in manual-zoom. Take note of where your Z setting is, and your aperture. Slam the lens to full telephoto, pop the iris open, and dial the focus ring until it looks good in the LCD. Stop the iris back down while you slam the zoom ring back where it started, and you'll have a really sharp image. Takes about six seconds for the whole process. If you can get it relatively close to in-focus at full zoom and wide-open iris, then when you stop back down and zoom out, the DOF will take over and ensure you get a crisp shot.
[/quote]
Just curious... why manual zoom? I do this with the servo zoom mode, and don't seem to have any problems... is it just a speed issue?
-Barry
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Focus in 24pa
Entirely a speed issue. Manual zoom lets me get to full telephoto instantly. But obviously there's no functional difference, I mean once you get to telephoto you're there, whether it was by manual or auto... I just like the instantaneous response of the manual zoom.
Entirely a speed issue. Manual zoom lets me get to full telephoto instantly. But obviously there's no functional difference, I mean once you get to telephoto you're there, whether it was by manual or auto... I just like the instantaneous response of the manual zoom.
ullanta
Veteran
Re: Focus in 24pa
[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=Events;num=1087671070;start=0#5 date=06/21/04 at 16:20:33] I just like the instantaneous response of the manual zoom.[/quote]
Clearly... slam! slam!
I'm just asking because I DO seem to get some blurring during servo-zooms that's not accounted for by the zooming itself... as if the servo is vibrating subtly or something. It doesn't seem to affect focus after... but I was just wondering if there might be any slight interplay of components.
Oh, I wish the manual zoom on my P was more usable!
-Barry
[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=Events;num=1087671070;start=0#5 date=06/21/04 at 16:20:33] I just like the instantaneous response of the manual zoom.[/quote]
Clearly... slam! slam!
I'm just asking because I DO seem to get some blurring during servo-zooms that's not accounted for by the zooming itself... as if the servo is vibrating subtly or something. It doesn't seem to affect focus after... but I was just wondering if there might be any slight interplay of components.
Oh, I wish the manual zoom on my P was more usable!
-Barry
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Focus in 24pa
I keep thinking that if we just had a long zoom lever, that would overcome all the "twitchiness" in the original 100's zoom action... the diameter of the circle we traverse is just too small to get real precision.
I used to have an Angenieux 12-120 with a 3" long zoom stick, but it's long gone, and I don't know if the threads would have matched up anyway.
I think if you got the longer reach, thus increasing the diameter of the circle, you'd get a lot smoother action on the zoom ring... but just a long zoom stick would probably throw the whole ring off balance...
I keep thinking that if we just had a long zoom lever, that would overcome all the "twitchiness" in the original 100's zoom action... the diameter of the circle we traverse is just too small to get real precision.
I used to have an Angenieux 12-120 with a 3" long zoom stick, but it's long gone, and I don't know if the threads would have matched up anyway.
I think if you got the longer reach, thus increasing the diameter of the circle, you'd get a lot smoother action on the zoom ring... but just a long zoom stick would probably throw the whole ring off balance...
ullanta
Veteran
Re: Focus in 24pa
Yeah, I've tried rigging things up. The problem is that the first contact of the fingers - before the lever or ring is actually "grabbed" - tends to throw in an annoying little twitch... as does the release (depending upon finger-stickiness!). I hope this is addressed by the increased friction of the A... even though I won't be getting one anytime soon, it would be nice to know.
I tried the string tricks, too, which are a bit better, but awkward. What I really want, and may construct if I get a chance, is a combination follow-focus / zoom rig, with nice knobs for both....
-B
Yeah, I've tried rigging things up. The problem is that the first contact of the fingers - before the lever or ring is actually "grabbed" - tends to throw in an annoying little twitch... as does the release (depending upon finger-stickiness!). I hope this is addressed by the increased friction of the A... even though I won't be getting one anytime soon, it would be nice to know.
I tried the string tricks, too, which are a bit better, but awkward. What I really want, and may construct if I get a chance, is a combination follow-focus / zoom rig, with nice knobs for both....
-B