Fluid Head Recommendations Please

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Denniscasey

Well-known member
I am doing step by step upgrade (budget limitations) to video starting with purchase of HMC40. Next on list is upgrade to my old Vivatar sturdy tripod with friction head. Tripod itself is quite good although heavier /longer than I want for travel. So plan is to first get decent fluid head then later get lighter weight/smaller tripod for head. Two main uses are race cars (fast smooth pans desired) and scenery (slow stable pans).

Main feature I think I need is adjustable drag to allow for fast race car pans as well as slow scenery pans. Don't want to spend a lot but looks like $400 or so is entry point.

1. What recommendations do you have at this price point (Greg, Sachtler you mentioned earlier looks beyond my price point).

2. What other features do I really need (mostly I do handheld, but now see need for tripod so lacking experience in using tripods).

The one option I have come up with so far is described below (from B&H)

Being very much aware of changing trends in the video world, Manfrotto revised their proven 503 fluid head taking into account the increasing performance demands of High Definition Mini-DV camcorders. The result is the 503HDV Pro. $360
With regard to ergonomics, the engineers at Manfrotto designed the 503HDV with entirely left-handed controls to enhance operational efficiency. Since camera controls are generally left-handed, every setting may be inspected and verified at a glance, facilitating rapid setups from shot to shot.
The greater resolution of High Definition video means that details as well as errors in movement are more apparent, and thereby demands a more refined means of support. The continuously-variable fluid drag system of the 503HDV provides just the right amount of dampening for any shot on your list-from whip pans to slow motion, just dial in drag to touch. This capability in conjunction with the 3-step counterbalance delivers the type of fingertip camera control normally reserved for much more costly production fluid heads.
ENG crews and independent filmmakers alike will appreciate the thoughtful, full-featured design of the 503HDV fluid head as it expands their shooting gamut without unnecessarily shrinking their budgets. As with all other Bogen/Manfrotto supports, it includes a two-year warranty and comprehensive online documentation.
Continuously-variable fluid drag
Multi-spring 3 step counterbalance
Sliding balance plate with 58mm of travel
Replaceable dual pan arm rosettes
Illuminated bubble level

Thank you for advice, Dennis
 
I haven't seen the redesigned 503 head, but the 504 (the "bridge" design) is getting a lot of positive buzz lately -- it's about $50 more, however. Hopefully someone who has used either or both of those specific models can chime in.

I completely understand about budgets -- the Sachtler was a heck of a splurge for me, too, and I wouldn't have done it either except for coming into some unexpected cash at the right moment. I have owned many tripods at all levels of quality over the years. Some pretty good and others pretty awful! I have a Manfrotto 516 head with 3246 (similar to the current 028B) legs which is very nice as well -- except ...

One feature I do like on higher end tripods is the ball mount for the head so you can level it quickly and easily. I don't know if you can quite squeeze that into your budget, but it saves quite a lot of time and trouble in the field, and is worth thinking about.

- Greg
 
I have a older 503 and a 504. Can't speak for the redesigned 503. The older 503 is probably the least expensive true fluid head. There are two issues with the 503. When starting a pan, I have had trouble getting a smooth start, but once in motion, it's fine. The other issue is counterbalance such that the cam will stay put in the vertical direction. This was such an annoyance with a HPX170 that I upgraded to the 504. Using a HMC40, both these problems would be non-issues. The 504 is all the way around a better head, more robust, better fluid dampening, and improved counterweight spring tension. It also has a longer slide so there is more opportunity to get better balance from the beginning. Both heads have interchangeable QR plates, but the 504 comes with the long version of the QR plate.

Note the 504 has a 75mm ball mount which allows for leveling the head during setup, but means you need a 75mm ball mount tripod, or a 100mm with adapter. Not sure if you can adapt to a 3/8" stud, but if you do, you would lose your leveler system. The 503 has 3/8 thread, so you will probably want the manfrotto leveling mechanism (see link) which adds $$ but works well. The 503 is very compact, and the 504 is pretty massive which is a important factor. IMHO, the 503 is enough head for a HMC40 and has the compact form. If I knew I was going larger in the future, I'd go with the 504.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554093-REG/Manfrotto_438_438_Compact_Levelling_Head.html

Grant
 
For the moment, the 504HD 75mm ball is not removable - it is made to the head permanently. Great head, otherwise.
 
Gentlemen, thank you for input which can save mistakes for newby like myself--i.e. I was seriously considering the 504 based on Greg's input and good reviews I was seeing, but did not understand the ball mount situation. Saved me from getting the 504 only to find it would not fit on my old Vivatar tripod. At least I knew enough to be prepared to ask about the ball mount and then Grant answered the question.

I have looked at "kits" from B&H and at least with the 503 head I could get the head and Manfrotto 055XPROB legs for $471 combined--saves $80 over buying head and legs separately. I do like the reviews of the 504, but needing to get a compatible set of legs could hurt the budget a lot---getting the 504 with compatible legs might be the wise thing to do in the long run, but short run would be a problem.
 
I currently own the 504HD + 546B legs as my main rig for personal use (with HMC150 and HVX200, but I'm a former HMC40 owner). I'm reasonably certain that the 504HD CAN be mounted flush on a 3/8" screw if you go with the 055xProB legs - I'll check and report back when I get home and take it off the legs.

We have a 503 head at work that's a solid workhorse of a head (we regularly check it for airline travel, and it's survived JFK, La Guardia, Dulles, Reagan National, O'Hare, BWI, and a few other "murder-for-your-checked-gear" airports), but I don't believe it's the redesigned version. It's always been sticky to start and stop pans, but once you're in motion it's smooth.

If you can hold out for the extra $$ for a 504HD + 75mm bowl-compatible legs (Look at some cheaper brands for legs, maybe?), I highly recommend the 504. As others have said: better counter balance, smoother pans, longer slide & plate for better balance with heavier rigs, AND it has a socket for a monitor arm, which I LOVE for use with my 7" Panasonic monitor. My 2 cents as someone who leap-frogged up to "the right gear" - Buy once, cry once!
 
Dennis, I personally found that video tripods with ball head is what you need to make video , double tube makes a great difference, I bought this
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...o_501HDV_546B_501HDV_Head_w_546B_2_Stage.html
And for those days when you want to travel light this
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/655221-REG/Induro_472_213_Alloy_8M_AT213_Tripod.html
and this head
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/556159-REG/Manfrotto_701HDV_701HDV_Pro_Fluid_Video.html

Yep, Manfrotto is a great brand, but Induro has better build in this 055 line
Now in the real video tripods Manfrotto gives you a price performance relationship unbeatable , I mean is surprising that price for that tripod
687057.jpg
501 AND 701 HEADS From Manfrotto are Fantastic, I'm a Manfrotto fan, but not for that blind to new options, and Induro
is making a great job with these still type tripods.
504 Head is better than 503 for about the same price but your camera weight is only 3-6 pounds with accesories the 504 is made for 17 pounds
it can hold 6 HMC 40, I'm not saying that is bad but weight might be something to consider
 
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Problem when I replied so this may show up twice. I don't understand fluid head technology and so assumed I needed variable drag adjustments to handle fast pans for racecars and slow pans for scenery pans. However, I see many "fixed drag" fluid heads and I vaguely recall viscoelastic fluids from old engineering school days--fluids that got stiffer when something moved quickly through them and I think some fluids got more fluid the faster something moved through them. Does this viscoelastic fluid stuff apply to fluid heads? A fluid that provides less drag the faster you pan and more drag the slower you pan without requiring some external drag adjustments?

Really appreciate education and advice from all of you and looking forward to Jason's input on 504 head and thank you Felipe for ongoing advice. Dennis
 
Dennis, long time ago when I worked at Avon cosmetics studio in NYC, and I was a teenager, that was some decades ago, I used to tell Louis the Main photographer that I'll like to know how to manufacture film, ( funny ), and his answer was learn how to take pictures, let Kodak do the film.
About the 501 and 701 heads, all I can tell you is that they are smooth , both axis have flying drag, not like the 128 LP from Manfrotto that being good, not as smooth.
Don't forget the sticks, your head can be smooth, but vibration from your hand can go to the sticks.
Let Manfrotto do the design, and believe me, just this year I went into real video tripods with ball head and double tube, I was scared about the weight and size but after trying VIDEO TRIPODS, I decided to go to the gym, just to feel the pleasure of real control.
 
A lot of lower end fluid heads don't have adjustable drag controls, just a locking knob for each of pan and tilt. They're perfectly serviceable as long as the default drag is reasonable -- which it almost always has been in my experience. The Sachtler I mostly use now does have 7 numbered settings, but to tell the truth, I hardly ever use more than two of them - a rather light "2" for general work and "7" for the occasional narrative shot with pre-planned moves where slow, smooth pans are more important than tracking spontaneous motion. But if it only had one fixed level equivalent to "2" or "3" I would still be perfectly satisfied with it anyway. I wouldn't let this be the deciding factor in choosing a head, although multiple settings fall in the "nice to have" category.

Having an adjustable (or in some cases, interchangeable) counterbalance spring to assist with the tilt action is probably more important, although some of the cheaper heads lack that as well.

I don't think there's any fancy science in the fluids that are used in these heads; it's just an ordinary petroleum based grease of an appropriate viscosity. But you can still do moves over a pretty wide range of speeds as long as the drag isn't unbearably heavy.

- Greg
 
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FWIW, I don't think the 701 is a fluid head at all, it just has a friction clutch. I have one of these for my slider and it is not a bad little head, decent enough for a lightweight like the HMC40, and a good value. But a fluid head it ain't.

Grant
 
Several posts strongly suggest ball head type is preferred. For someone not experienced with ball heads (me), what are main benefits of ball heads--is it primarily the ability to quickly level camera by adjusting ball head vs adjusting tripod legs?
 
Denniscasey said:
Several posts strongly suggest ball head type is preferred. For someone not experienced with ball heads (me), what are main benefits of ball heads--is it primarily the ability to quickly level camera by adjusting ball head vs adjusting tripod legs?
Click to expand...
Yes, but sometimes if you adjust the legs you loose your exact positioning of the camera. in particular outdoors on difficult grounds
 
Hi Guys

I switched both my tripods to Weifeng 75mm bowl heads and they have been going well for 3 years now...I would never go back to a "adjust the leg" style sticks again. The bowl is quick and easy even on rough terrain and certainly beats trying to shorten or lengthen legs to get things level. With a bowl it gets done in seconds regardless of the leg adjustment...even on crazy terrain it's still faster cos you only need to do a very rough level and then get things perfect with the bowl. I'm running the much heavier HMC80's on each and they are brilliant. Top of the range broadcast tripods like Miller stick to bowls so that should be an indication unless you truely do need the wobbly center elevator crank...I can live without it!!!

Chris
 
With apologies for asking so many questions, I see wisdom of purchasing ball head (Manfrotto 504HD) and I wonder if this “adapter”—link below –would allow me to attach it to my existing flat base tripod? It is not clear to novice like me if that is the purpose of this adapter.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/404139-REG/Manfrotto_325N_325N_Video_Head_Adapter.html

Thinking is I could get experience with this fluid head and then per my original plan later on upgrade my tripod legs to either ball head tripod or the adapter would allow me also to include flat base tripods (seems to be wider range of flat base tripods available vs ball head tripods). Thank you for advice and patience. Dennis
 
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