F55: First Time

Chris Langer

Chris Langer

Well-known member
Hello everyone,
I am going to be using a Sony F55 on a short coming up and I am the DP. I own the FS700 and wondering what sort of things I should look out for when filming/lighting the short? What settings have you found work the best? I am going to read up on everything I can and play with it before we shoot. What is the best quality I can record with the SxS cards and not the AX5 recorder?

Thanks,
Chris
 
At this stage, without the SR Codec being available, the 4K 10-bit XAVC internal recording is the highest quality you can record at internally without shooting raw. For maximum quality record in S-GAMUT and SLOG2, and shoot in and expose for ISO1250.

An external monitor or viewfinder with good exposure tools like false colour or waveform is probably the most useful accessory you can add to the camera.

The camera really lends itself to manual control and settings. So set it for S-GAMUT and SLOG2, choose your framerate and white balance, lock the settings off with the lock button, and shoot away.
 
Teh Grug speaks the truth.

If Red and Alexa are your role-models, then S-Log2 and S-Gamut, don't overexpose (18% gray at 32IRE, reflected whites at around 65IRE), and go find the good LUTs for Resolve, or test your footage with ACES in Resolve (my fav).
 
Whats a good ISO for outside shooting and whats a good one for indoors?

4K 10-bit XAVC should be plenty for this short film. How much recording time for a 128 GB SxS card will I get?

I was suppose to get the Sony F3 from the rental house but they ran out and said will hook you up with the F55 so now I am like oh my, must learn everything about it!

Thanks for the help guys!
Chris
 
Chris Langer said:
Whats a good ISO for outside shooting and whats a good one for indoors?
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1250 is the deal. If you don't need quite as much highlight latitude, and need to keep the blacks as clean as possible, then maybe 800ish.

Nighttime interior or exterior with lots of black patches in the frame might be a decent time to go to 800, and give up a stop of latitude in the highlights (do you really need to see detail in the center of the streetlight or tablelamp shade?) But really, the noise is not terrible at 1250.

Chris Langer said:
4K 10-bit XAVC should be plenty for this short film. How much recording time for a 128 GB SxS card will I get?
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66 minutes at 24fps. No off speed in 4K XAVC unless you set the "System Frequency" to 59.94 then you have that speed and have to slow things back down in post. Messy.

Chris Langer said:
I was suppose to get the Sony F3 from the rental house but they ran out and said will hook you up with the F55 so now I am like oh my, must learn everything about it!
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Just remember Slog needs to be slightly underexposed by eye. LUTs fix that, but unless you have an HDLink applying a LUT to your monitor, that's a non-reality.
 
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Hi Chris, welcome to DVX.

As others have suggested if you really want to maximize the "film look" from the F55 then you definitely want to shoot using the slog2 gamma curve and s-gamut setting and be diligent with your exposure.

• middle grey that you would normally expose for 50% drops down to 32% in slog2 mode, and 90% reflected white (like from a white card) sits at around 60%. If you follow these values you will get very nice results even with XAVC 10-bit 422 but whatever you end up using to "monitor" your image is going to be dark as hell coming out of the F55. This includes using the OLED VF from Sony or even external monitor since as of today the F5/F55 offer absolutely NO MONITORING LUTS which can easily cause you to over-expose because you will not believe you are getting proper exposure when you do see the image coming out of the monitor.

• More on monitoring: when I was running firmware v1.13 neither the HDMI or analog composite out (labelled test out) will work with the camera set to a base frequency of 23.98fps. Those outputs will work if you are set to a base frequency of 29.97 but I doubt you are shooting a film at 29.97. This is a oversight by Sony and hopefully fixed up in a future firmware release. If you shoot 24p and want to use an external monitor then you can use the SDI-3 output port and an SDI monitor. Thankfully the SDI port works in 24p mode.

• Recording 4k @ 23.98fps I used SXS SR-1 (orange/silver) and SXS Pro (blue/silver) cards no problem. If you do any 59fps the SR-1 cards may not be enough and I've seen my F55 hang trying to record to it.

• I'm pretty anal when it comes to getting consistent exposure and "film-style" shooting, especially when there can be multiple camera/lighting setups, and even more true when the director decides to go back to a pervious lighting setup from earlier in the day. Using a light meter is up to you of course and a waveform monitor does somewhat supercede the use of a light meter but a light meter will let you or your gaffer get the lighting setup to near how you want before the camera is even in position.

• When the camera is in slog2 + s-gamut mode you can only select from 3 white balance presets: 3200k, 4400k, 5600k.

• The F55 is not stocked with XLR inputs, there is a module that screws on and goes on the side. If you are borrowing/renting an F55 for your shoot make sure this is installed if you plan to record a guide track from your sound man.

• What I found to work best? I'm still experimenting but generally I seem to like keeping skin at 30IRE, and nothing that is "hot" white from exceeding 60% IRE.

• Here are some examples I made of various LUTs applied to a frame without any other corrections taking place. http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?308959-various-slog2-to-Rec709-LUT-samples


Grug said:
An external monitor or viewfinder with good exposure tools like false colour or waveform is probably the most useful accessory you can add to the camera.
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Just a note that false color can not "accurately" be used on the F5/F55 (when in slog2 mode) until LUTs can be applied to signal being recorded.
 
Hello Dennis,
Thank you for your insights regarding the F55. It was very helpful. I saw your thread about the LUT's and the look of this camera is just great! I would love to see a trailer of the film when it is done! I will be posting this short on here whenever it gets finished (hopefully late July).

I have my light meter and I follow the histogram well. Did I read somewhere that this camera does not have a histogram yet? For monitoring, I will adjust my monitor to make it not look so dark for the camera but will only use it as a framing reference not a true-color reference. That is a bummer about the HDMI port. I will call the rental house and make sure I have an SDI option. I wish I just bought the SmallHD SDI version :(

Thank you for letting me know about XLR module. I will check to make sure it is included with the camera.

If I missed anything please let me know! Your feedback on the camera is invaluable and I really appreciate it.

I pick up the camera next week and will have a day to figure it out. I hope it all works out in my favor!

Thanks,
Chris
 
Your welcome, hopefully your finding good bits of info here and there.

You might also try the Sony F55 forums as well. In fact I just posted some help there on how to use Davinci Resolve to create dailies or off-line version files for editing which you may need to do once you are finished shooting your film: http://community.sony.com/t5/F5-F55/Dailies-Programs-for-XAVC/m-p/139897#U139897 Of course the F55 has the ability to record 4k XAVC and MPEG proxies at the same time, but you'll have to double-check what SXS cards you would need for that and what NLE's will actually open the MPEG files created by the F55. I haven't done any testing myself on that front.

There is no histogram on the F5/F55 but it is coming on a future firmware update along with waveform monitor. Sony hasn't said when. The only built in exposure tool right now are ZEBRA stripes. You might have some luck with those setting them down to 60% with a tight zebra aperture and then putting a white card in place of where your talent would be standing, but I'm not a big fan of this method.

Regarding the HDMI and "test-out" signal problem, I can't say for sure if it ever worked or only broke with v1.13. I haven't tested v1.14 yet which just came out a week ago. Also when you switch to 60p your SDI monitor will not give you any image, so if you're planning to shoot any over-cranking you really need to get your monitoring options straightened out. The Sony OLED VF will display images in 60p mode, but as mentioned in slog2 mode everything will look dark as hell.

I hope I'm not sounding too negative about the camera, seriously it is FABULOUS once you learn to work around some of the temporary constraints.
 
Man, there is just a few things that camera needs and it would be perfect. I always use the histogram so I guess I will learn to use the zebras. Maybe I can get a nice monitor that includes a waveform for me.
 
Chris, I just did six days in a row on 2 different commercials with 3 f55's and then 2 f55's. My best advice would be: set your zebras for 50% with a small aperatur ( 5% I think is what I set ) and put that on the hottest part (highlight) of your subjects skintone. It's pretty foolproof once you get the hang of it.
 
What do you mean small aperture? Like in the lens or on the camera settings? Just making sure I understand you.

It almost feels like I am shooting film :)
 
Sorry Chris, I should have clarified that. It's the Zebra aperture level - page 52 in the manual. If it's too high the the zebra will be distracting. Just my personal preference.
It is like shooting film. Do a couple of under/over exposure tests to put your mind at rest. There's a lot of info in 4k s-log.
 
starcentral said:
Just a note that false color can not "accurately" be used on the F5/F55 (when in slog2 mode) until LUTs can be applied to signal being recorded.
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What makes you say that Dennis? I found it very easy and accurate to work with: in SLOG2 just get the highlights on people's skin to be green, and any white objects should straddle the line between light-grey and pink - done. Grades back beautifully.
 
I only meant you will never be able to leverage the full spectrum of the assigned colors on your monitor with false color because its designed for 0-100IRE and with slog2 you're really shooting around ~ 0-60. Most color spectrum ranges seem to be designed for the full 0-100 scale with emphasis on the typical areas of interest for that scale. ie. more intervals for skin falling anywhere from 30-60 IRE, bright tones at ~80 and warnings at 81-83 IRE and the wonderful dangerous red when over 100IRE.

What I found is some monitors have pretty wide color ranges particularly when down around the 30 range (the D7W I used ranged 23-43, Marshall's seem more spaced out and equal) and I think if you are shooting a film with a lot of camera and lighting setups it can make it hard to use as a reliable & repeatable exposure tool. :huh:

And if you are shooting "flat" or perhaps there are no highlights, or its just unconventional lighting, etc.. it can be a tough to use "accurately".

We really needs those monitoring LUTs!
 
Chris Langer said:
Do I need to ask for special SxS cards to record in 4K? I want to make sure I am getting the right stuff.
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I used orange/silver SxS-1 cards (with red stripe on blue sticker) to shoot 4k XAVC in 24p without a single issue. You can not use it for 60p though.

I also used blue/silver SxS pro card for XAVC 24-60p no problem.

The pro+ cards will probably very much be needed for SR Codec coming out next month through firmware update - or maybe be needed on F55 to shoot XAVC and proxy files at the same time.
 
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I will only need to shoot at 24p and I think they have the 128GB PRO cards. Are the 128's only PRO+? I will confirm with them tomorrow to make sure I am not screwed! They said I will able to shoot 4K internally so I am not worried.
 
With the FS700/FS100 we can change various settings like contrast, detail, hue, etc... When shooting in S-Gamut/SLOG2 I assume all of these are turned off and it applies SLOG2 throughout? If not, what should I set those settings to? On my FS700/FS100 these are called the Picture Profiles.
 
I believe the 128's are pro+

Just rent the 128 pro+ and you'll be fine. I only mentioned the other cards incase you were buying them and wanted to save money.
 
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