First thread ever. Help me!

F

Fists

Member
First thread, so...Hi :cheesy:

I just had a life epiphany that basically led to say " screw it, I want to be in cinema". Changing my life plans I am starting from scratch , applied to Concordia University in Film production in Montreal. Now the thing is to get in this program you need a portfolio, which should include a cover letter, 6min film and an extra art creation ( script, short story essay , whatever). The catch is they admit 60 out of 600 people, ok so fair game. Now if I do get admitted, it will be for next fall semester 2012 and that is if the earth hasn't blown up yet. That being said, I want to start now and get a head start in the game, so I bought books to learn acting , directing, photography, camera work, scriptwriting. But this is just theory and most of you would agree that within film making, the majority of the stuff you learn is within the actual field of doing.

My point and question being. I got 10 to 15 grand to spend in equipment , could get more if absolutely necessary. Knowing I do not have any actual experience ( apart from the scripts I wrote), what do you guys think would be a great camera to get first ( im liking the dslrs ) that would last me and help me during this voyage. I am really aiming for the Canon 5d mkII closest i have seen to film.
 
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Welcome to the forum. Congrats on your new life changes.:)
Not to sound harsh, but if you think your gonna buy a 5d, and produce the same film like footage you see online, your sadly mistaken. The 5d footage you see that looks good, is from guys with years of experience, experience gained from shooting on a proper camera, and with knowledge and know how of pulling focus, (which is very hard on that camera). These same guys know how to light, and compose a proper shot. They know how to move the camera, and use it's strengths without exploiting it's weaknesses. There's so many stupid work arounds you need to know when it comes to dslr's. Maybe thats why 98% of the footage you see is crap, or tests of cats and dogs, going in and out of focus with horrid audio. This is where the avg Joe learns it's no where near as easy as they thought. No camera is going to make you a good DP. Experience, and lots of shooting will get you going in the right direction, but thats about it.

I see so many posts from folks with little or no experience thinking that a 5d or dslr is going to turn them in to a great shooter, Not the case. Your best bet is to learn to shoot on a proper camcorder, there's lots of second hand cameras that will be perfect for you to learn on. I would suggest you get an xha1, hmc150, or hvx200. then when you learn it inside and out and how to shoot with it, two or three years down the road, you can look for something that has a large sensor, in other words, the world needs more blurry footage like a hole in the head. And thats all your going to produce with the 5d having no experience. Again, im not trying to be harsh, but save you some time and money.

Take that money and spend it wisely, get a second hand camera, get a good tripod, three light kit, and a decent mic. Thats all you need. You should be able to do it for half of what you want to spend. Put the remaining in a bank account and save it for books, tuition, food. well, ok beer too. but drink cheap ****.

Your making a good decision by going to school, so dont louse it up by starting off learning the wrong way. Just my 2cents. Take it for what it's worth:)
 
Maranfilms, I have to disagree with you on the used XHA1/HMC150. They will cost a lot more than a basic DSLR setup. In my opinion, jumping into the deep end (with a strong theoretical understanding and having done lots of reading as the OP has) will give a quicker learning curve than starting out with a camcorder.

It's kind of like when everyone started to switch from SD to HD, and complained that the cameras were too hard to focus - proof that having a more forgiving camera makes you less precise. Same again with switching to DSLR's - you have to re-learn all over again as you realise just how sloppy your focus technique was before!

The thing I love about DSLR for student/amatuer use is that it actually forces you to learn. If you're not dedicated to actually learning, then you'll give up pretty quick so it's weeds out the wannabes. You need to know about f-stops, shutterspeeds, ISO, DOF, focus marks, proper camera movement, lens selection, framing, etc, etc. Whereas with camcorders you can just whack them in auto and forget about it - which is great because it lets you focus on the story/action but you'll be missing out on all the technicalities.

My advice for the OP would be to grab a cheap t2i or t3i with a kit lens and maybe a few Nikon primes (50mm & 28mm) with an adaptor and start shooting with it as much as possible until you learn all the relationships between focal length, DOF, aperture, shutterspeed, ISO, etc.
 
I'd wait till the Sony FS100 is released this summer, and buy yourself a SmallHD DP6 external monitor (with a Zacuto arm to put it on, do not buy the crappy Redrock / SmallHD ones), a follow focus (you have the money for a nice one, say an O'Conner), a couple rails, and that's it. Spend your remaining budget on lights and microphones.

Or if you're not satisfied with the onboard audio and/or video recording quality of the FS100, skip the DP6 and get a Sound Devices PIX220 as your audio recorder, video recorder, AND external monitor.

Buying some $600 Canon that you're gonna outgrow in six minutes is a really bad idea, in my opinion. Buy right, buy once, I say.
 
The thing I love about DSLR for student/amatuer use is that it actually forces you to learn. If you're not dedicated to actually learning, then you'll give up pretty quick so it's weeds out the wannabes. You need to know about f-stops, shutterspeeds, ISO, DOF, focus marks, proper camera movement, lens selection, framing, etc, etc. Whereas with camcorders you can just whack them in auto and forget about it - which is great because it lets you focus on the story/action but you'll be missing out on all the technicalities.
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Since when dont you need to know all the same things while shooting a camcorder? The last time I shot,( which was today) I checked f-stops, focus marks, iso (gain), shutter speeds, proper camera movement, framing. So your saying that if you shoot with a camcorder, you will only use full auto? Thats absurd. I have both a dslr, and several camcorders. And to be honest, dslr shooting is pretty half assss. Just a tip, you have to check exposure no matter what you shoot with.

It's kind of like when everyone started to switch from SD to HD, and complained that the cameras were too hard to focus - proof that having a more forgiving camera makes you less precise. Same again with switching to DSLR's - you have to re-learn all over again as you realise just how sloppy your focus technique was before!
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Huh, This is as absurd as your first comment. Focus is focus. either your in focus or your not. Doesn't matter what your shooting. out of focus sd, looks just as bad as out of focus hd. If anything, your gonna be more sloppy with focus on a dslr due to the shallow dof. just check vimeo there's out of focus dslr vids everyother post.
 
I'd wait till the Sony FS100 is released this summer
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I dont recomend waiting to buy anything, your not going to learn waiting around for a camera to come out. Get a camera now and shoot. At this point the op, doesn't even know if he is going like shooting. There's no sense in blowing 15k on gear if he's gonna turn around and sell it for a loss. This is why i say, get a used camcorder, with audio, nd filters, decent lens, tripod, and basic light kit. Go shoot some stuff, And if he enjoys shooting and does decide to go to school, he will not only have money for expenses, like shooting films, he will also have some cash to live off of. And still be able to learn with his own gear, when not using the schools. Which in some cases you have to.
 
GOOD GOD PEOPLE!

your = possessive. something that belongs to you. your camera choice
you're = you + are. something you are doing. you're going to choose a camera

i kid ; )
 
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I dont recomend waiting to buy anything, your not going to learn waiting around for a camera to come out. Get a camera now and shoot.
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- that's good advice.

At this point the op, doesn't even know if he is going like shooting. There's no sense in blowing 15k on gear if he's gonna turn around and sell it for a loss.
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- that's even better advice.

im not sure id suggest a dslr right out of the gate to someone whos never shot ANYTHING. my fear is basically due to the hoops you have to jump through to get decent audio. and even when you do, from an education standpoint youve learned as much about hoop jumping as you have about pro-audio.

but that point aside. i wholly agree with those who say dont blow all your cash on gear right out of the gate. just because you like writing and watching films doesnt mean you're going to be good at or even enjoy making them. i say start with:
- a lower/mid range dslr (even at the higher end, they're all one compromise or another. so im not going to try to advise you on which one)
- a basic kit zoom lens
- a decent starter tripod (manfrotto 503 rig maybe)
- a decent monopod. like this:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/737980-REG/Manfrotto_561BHDV_1_Fluid_Video_Monopod_W_Head.html

learn to use the camera with available light and sound. then as you learn and when/if you get better, THEN add audio and lights and filters, etc...

reason i say this is way back in the 1990s when i got into the biz, i had a fat stack of cash and bought all this gear based on what i thought or what somebody told me i needed. and much of it was either bad advice or didnt suit my kind of work. or i flat didnt know how to use it.

start slow, start small, buy as your needs and skill dictate.
 
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I have a BFA from Concordia with a major in cinema (filmmaking). It's my worst university experience. The selection process is asinine, they are looking for minority people, not talent. The filmmaking teachers are incompetents, so are the technicians. The interdisciplinary studies are meddling with the board and actively trying to exclude students that do not fit their standards. They have a review process at the end of the first year to displace half of the students into film studies the next year, they get more founds that way because they can claim the filmmaking subsides for the full major even if half don't have filmmaking classes the second year. Nasty. If you are an heterosexual white male you are going to have a hard time staying in, especially if you're not making narcissistic self exploration shorts. I learned nothing there, beside avoiding those people in the future. If you really want to go, I recommend you avoid the filmmaking classes altogether and only do film studies, at least you're going to learn something.

When I did my BFA we had little choice, 16mm gear rental was expensive and there was no internet. Now it's a different story. Read these boards, read novels and short stories, watch films, buy a GH2, and go shoot on your own. That's the program.
 
wgzn said:
GOOD GOD PEOPLE!

your = possessive. something that belongs to you. your camera choice
you're = you + are. something you are doing. you're going to choose a camera

i kid ; )
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I know my grammer and spelling are horrid at times. Chalk it up to 15 hr days, and beaing a dipshit.:)
 
chon said:
I have a BFA from Concordia with a major in cinema (filmmaking). It's my worst university experience. The selection process is asinine, they are looking for minority people, not talent. The filmmaking teachers are incompetents, so are the technicians. The interdisciplinary studies are meddling with the board and actively trying to exclude students that do not fit their standards. They have a review process at the end of the first year to displace half of the students into film studies the next year, they get more founds that way because they can claim the filmmaking subsides for the full major even if half don't have filmmaking classes the second year. Nasty. If you are an heterosexual white male you are going to have a hard time staying in, especially if you're not making narcissistic self exploration shorts. I learned nothing there, beside avoiding those people in the future. If you really want to go, I recommend you avoid the filmmaking classes altogether and only do film studies, at least you're going to learn something.

When I did my BFA we had little choice, 16mm gear rental was expensive and there was no internet. Now it's a different story. Read these boards, read novels and short stories, watch films, buy a GH2, and go shoot on your own. That's the program.
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Things change, it may be totally different from when you went. I know Full Sail, was a joke 15 yrs ago, but hey have since got their stuff together, and im seeing some amazing talent come out of there. Plus , you get out what you put in. There's no reason not to learn if you want to.
 
maranfilms said:
Since when dont you need to know all the same things while shooting a camcorder? The last time I shot,( which was today) I checked f-stops, focus marks, iso (gain), shutter speeds, proper camera movement, framing. So your saying that if you shoot with a camcorder, you will only use full auto? Thats absurd. I have both a dslr, and several camcorders. And to be honest, dslr shooting is pretty half assss. Just a tip, you have to check exposure no matter what you shoot with.



Huh, This is as absurd as your first comment. Focus is focus. either your in focus or your not. Doesn't matter what your shooting. out of focus sd, looks just as bad as out of focus hd. If anything, your gonna be more sloppy with focus on a dslr due to the shallow dof. just check vimeo there's out of focus dslr vids everyother post.
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Wow. Just because I disagree with you does not mean you need to unleash a tirade on me and call my comments absurd.

I never said camcorders don't have the abliity to choose F-stop, gain, shutterspeed etc. (well, that is if you discount anything which costs less than the 60D & a few lenses) But they also have excellent auto-modes. And 99.99999% of people are going to leave them in auto and get better pictures in auto mode than if they used them in manual. Any sudden, unsteady movements will be smoothed out by interlaced recordings and dual (electronic + optical) IS, and they'll never even consider the relationship between Aperture, Shutter and gain.. Camcorders make things easy and give the right result 98% of the time. You can choose to go the hard way in order to possibly achieve the right result 100% of the time - but very few people actually do. The members on this site are generally the exception to the rule.

As for the focus, perhaps you should look back at all the camera reviews and threads about new HD camcorders from about 2006-2008. A common theme was that focus is much less forgiving on HD cameras.
 
deltoidjohn said:
Wow. Just because I disagree with you does not mean you need to unleash a tirade on me and call my comments absurd.

I never said camcorders don't have the abliity to choose F-stop, gain, shutterspeed etc. (well, that is if you discount anything which costs less than the 60D & a few lenses) But they also have excellent auto-modes. And 99.99999% of people are going to leave them in auto and get better pictures in auto mode than if they used them in manual. Any sudden, unsteady movements will be smoothed out by interlaced recordings and dual (electronic + optical) IS, and they'll never even consider the relationship between Aperture, Shutter and gain.. Camcorders make things easy and give the right result 98% of the time. You can choose to go the hard way in order to possibly achieve the right result 100% of the time - but very few people actually do. The members on this site are generally the exception to the rule.

As for the focus, perhaps you should look back at all the camera reviews and threads about new HD camcorders from about 2006-2008. A common theme was that focus is much less forgiving on HD cameras.
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Im sorry, after re-reading it come off as harsh. I do apolagize.
 
From what I know about 'creative' schools, being it art or design or film, picking you will not be decided by how professional your audio or image quality is. They know that applying students probably won't have the budget yet for it. Don't spend 15K on equipment. Don't even spend 3K. They are searching for talent (they should be at least).
Maybe you know somebody who has a camcorder or a video DSLR you could borough for a day or two and find out what you like better. I can at least state that it's easier to get aesthetic looking footage with DSLRs.
 
maranfilms said:
Things change, it may be totally different from when you went. I know Full Sail, was a joke 15 yrs ago, but hey have since got their stuff together, and im seeing some amazing talent come out of there. Plus , you get out what you put in. There's no reason not to learn if you want to.
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I've been told it's worse. It's a 40 yrs old program. They were good in the 70's, but have not updated since. What's the point of learning to shoot with crank winded bolexes and edit on old beaten-up moviolas while never crossing the path of a real filmmaker? The program is obsolete and the teachers are mediocre.

Everyday I see people with no formal training produce amazing footage on youtube and vimeo. Filmmaking isn't exclusive anymore. Anybody with $1000 who read a little and watch films can do it.

That being said, Fists, if you really want to go, I can tell you how to trick them into accepting you. Make a piece on how you recently got out of male prostitution by sheer will, with a whiny voice over and random shots of your foot beating the sidewalk. Shoot a scene with you alone in a kitchen, a cupcake with a lit candle in front of you. Say you are celebrating your first anniversary, a year ago you wrote in your diary that things would change. Shoot a nude with you crying in the fetal position. Yeah, that bad. It would be wise to show your flaccid penis towards the end. They love that s**t. Make it look like you have no technical ability. Shoot with your cell phone at the lowest setting. You'll get in, and stay in as long as you work the marginalization angle. Do not make a narrative short. No action or fancy camera movement. Shaky, out of focus, bad lighting, booming sound, jumpy editing and poor sap story is the way to go. As long as you fit into their idea of ostracization you'll get in.

I recommend you attend one of their student film screenings beforehand. They organize two or three every year. Bring gravol and ask yourself if you want to learn how to make one of those fresh turds.
 
That being said, Fists, if you really want to go, I can tell you how to trick them into accepting you. Make a piece on how you recently got out of male prostitution by sheer will, with a whiny voice over and random shots of your foot beating the sidewalk. Shoot a scene with you alone in a kitchen, a cupcake with a lit candle in front of you. Say you are celebrating your first anniversary, a year ago you wrote in your diary that things would change. Shoot a nude with you crying in the fetal position. Yeah, that bad. It would be wise to show your flaccid penis towards the end. They love that s**t. Make it look like you have no technical ability. Shoot with your cell phone at the lowest setting. You'll get in, and stay in as long as you work the marginalization angle. Do not make a narrative short. No action or fancy camera movement. Shaky, out of focus, bad lighting, booming sound, jumpy editing and poor sap story is the way to go. As long as you fit into their idea of ostracization you'll get in.
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Lmao. +1
 
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