First tests: it's not THAT sensitive

moldcad

moldcad

Veteran
So, finally I've got the FS100EK - for testing till Thursday, but it will most probably stay :)

I'll post my impressions later, but now would like to say this:

- when I was speculating about using this camera with primes at F1.4, some people reacted strangely with the "why would you need such wide aperture on a camera that sensitive" kind of questions. But today I did my first test shoots indoors, with a quite cloudy sky outside the window and of course no additional light, and believe me: even with my Canon FD 50mm/F1.4 still lens, I had to crank gain up to 18 dB! Thankfully, the camera is virtually noise-free as you know, but I was astonished - people made be prepared for not opening above F5.6 without an ND filter...

Is it normal? I mean, have my expectations re: the FS100 sensitivity been too high, or is my unit faulty?

Piotr
 
The camera is 500 asa at 0db. Its not going to see in the darkness indoors on a cloudy day. I think peoples enthusiasm stems from the ability to use noise free gain for the first time. In the smaller chip days we never ever thought about using gain unless we absolutely had no choice. This camera allows most of us for the first time to use gain without a penalty. You have to change your way of thinking regarding gain. 18db , the limit for me, with a fast lens can make darkness into light.
 
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Exactly my thoughts, mico. This is why I always believed the true potential of this camera will manifest itself with really fast lens - at F1.4, you really get some shallow DOF! And this is why I was skeptical about the types of comments I mentioned above...

So, the beauty is in two things (apart of course from the S35 kind of DOF):

- ability to use high gains when needed, without that ugly noise that I was fighting against with my EX1
- ability to get away with aperture closed down to some F16, without being afraid of diffraction softness
 
With AbleCine's "Technicolor" settings, and correct handeling in post i'm setting my lightmeter @ 800, i set to 500 when tested with the stock setting, but i do not use that.

i see the FS at about a stop faster than my EX1 & 3 when i have them side by side

d
 
I bought a cheap used knock off brand (vivitar) nikon 70-210mm f3.5 for $35 and with the FS100 it basically make it's comparable to the nikon brand 70-200mm f2.8... without spending the $600-1000 it would take for the brand name and speed... that's not to say the nikon 2.8 isn't better glass, it is, alls I'm saying is the 3.5 cheapy just got a little faster at iso 500 and for $35, I mean, jeez, that's cheaper than the UV filter on the 2.8.

FS100 is plenty fast and light efficient for what you're paying for it... and slower lenses get a little extra love too.
 
Dermot said:
i see the FS at about a stop faster than my EX1 & 3 when i have them side by side

d
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Exactly - perhaps a stop and a half, but not more. Listening to some people's comments, I was expecting the difference to be much greater.

This is not to say I don't like the FS100 - to the contrary; as I stated above, the freedom of operating gain and aperture (both ways - depending on the need) is just sweet. With the EX1, I almost feel physical pain when I must gain above 3 dB in low light, or - in the full sunshine - need to engage NDs during the take, out of the fear of diffraction softness induced by closing down too much (like below F5.6)...
 
DC EX1 said:
I bought a cheap used knock off brand (vivitar) nikon 70-210mm f3.5 for $35 and with the FS100 it basically make it's comparable to the nikon brand 70-200mm f2.8... without spending the $600-1000 it would take for the brand name and speed... that's not to say the nikon 2.8 isn't better glass, it is, alls I'm saying is the 3.5 cheapy just got a little faster at iso 500 and for $35, I mean, jeez, that's cheaper than the UV filter on the 2.8.

FS100 is plenty fast and light efficient for what you're paying for it... and slower lenses get a little extra love too.
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I hear what you're saying - my still lenses (Canon FDs) were also bought on eBay, and all of them being fast (1.4 - 1.8), none cost me more than Euro 20 :)

Plus, I find the stock zoom to be much better than some people reported earlier on (again)!
 
moldcad said:
I hear what you're saying - my still lenses (Canon FDs) were also bought on eBay, and all of them being fast (1.4 - 1.8), none cost me more than Euro 20 :)

Plus, I find the stock zoom to be much better than some people reported earlier on (again)!
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Never got the stock zoom but from what I see from tests online, it's pretty solid for the price... I'm just looking at the sensitivity of the FS100 from a purely aesthetic view, I haven't run tests, nor do I really care about a lot of the math behind it... for the situations I've run into thus far, extremely low light concerts, night shoots and cloudy days, the sensor has stood its ground and delivered a great image... one thing I don't like is the mirror effect it has with strong light, but once better e mount adapters come out that shouldn't be as much of a problem, we all have our gripes.

check out keh.com for sweet used cheap glass for the fs100... I buy all my used glass on there, even picked up the canon 85mm 1.2L for 1300 in excellent condition... doesn't work with fs100 yet, but soon hopefully!
 
moldcad said:
... even with my Canon FD 50mm/F1.4 still lens, I had to crank gain up to 18 dB! Thankfully, the camera is virtually noise-free as you know, but I was astonished - people made be prepared for not opening above F5.6 without an ND filter...
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Have you done any more tests? I find it impossible to need 18db gain indoors on sunny day at f1.4. Indoors on mid afternoon day I'm able to shoot f2.8 on the Canon FD 50mm and going through a 35mm adapter to a HPX170.....
 
Yeah, it must be some dark house. I'm currently in a room with only lights coming from barely cracked open blinds. I'm barely getting 3db at f/2.8
 
moldcad said:
Is it normal? I mean, have my expectations re: the FS100 sensitivity been too high, or is my unit faulty?

Piotr
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Have you seen my low light test Piotr?


And this was shot with the super slow kit lens. Try that with any other camera.

Frank
 
starcentral said:
Have you done any more tests? I find it impossible to need 18db gain indoors on sunny day at f1.4. Indoors on mid afternoon day I'm able to shoot f2.8 on the Canon FD 50mm and going through a 35mm adapter to a HPX170.....
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Man, that's exactly what I thought. Hell, even a T2i with the kit lens shoots my living room without having to add gain. Is it possible he got a bad unit?
 
jdv said:
Man, that's exactly what I thought. Hell, even a T2i with the kit lens shoots my living room without having to add gain. Is it possible he got a bad unit?
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Everyone's living room is lighted differently. I think a way to test if his camera is faulty is to get another camera in there and test it out. I never have to use gain inside my house during the day, but i have alot of windows and even with the blinds closed, alot of light comes in. In a room with one window that isn't very bright and a weak inside light, you definitely would need to bump up the gain.
 
i think it IS, THAT sensitive. "THAT" meaning more sensitive than any other camera out there in terms of usable footage in low light.... what is 30db in terms of ISO? something like 16000? and that footage is workable.
 
30db is around 25,600 ISO (I think). I find sometimes I need ND indoors, with basic office lighting, if shooting wide open at say F2 at 0db. My 60D needed to be at ISO 1600 to get the same shot with all its noise.

I find the FS100 is actually too sensitive at times.
 
moldcat did you figure out the issue? I suggest you take camera back to store... on the other hand maybe you are lucky and got one with build in ND filters :D
 
I was already hoping nobody would ask, because the answer is embarrassing :)

But since you are asking, why not give you a reason to some good laugh, guys: it turned out I didn't properly screw my FD lens onto the adapter ring, and its iris only half-opened even though the iris ring was at the F1.4 stop position...

So, the updated message is this: the FS100 is a brilliant camera, and it's going to stay in my arsenal as an excellent addition to my work-horse EX1.

Piotr

PS Oh, and while it's very sensitive & clean, I'll stick to it that it's not too sensitive at all - especially with my Heliopan filter.
 
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