First Look, Panasonic AG-AC90 at DVExpo West

Looks like noise reduction and high gain. The AC90 doesn't really get "noisy" at all, but it does get smushier at higher gain levels. It can go very high in gain without any appreciable increase in noise, and as far as I can tell that's because a commensurate amount of noise reduction is employed to counteract the higher gain.

Keep it at zero gain and it's infinitely better.
 
Barry_Green said:
Keep it at zero gain and it's infinitely better.
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Previous reports on the AC90 performance with high-gain have given me confidence in choosing it over the HMC150, especially because of the implementation of 1080p60. I'm hoping to put the AC90 into service primarily with indoor sports clientele (hockey and basketball) where light can be an issue. Does this raise an issue for those whose intended use is interior with available light?
 
Well, it's not a very sensitive camera. It's stellar in daylight, but like the HMC40, it's not great in low light. The gain is very clean, but if you're shooting in dark situations at high gain, there's gonna be some tradeoffs to accomplish that. On the HMC40 you got really noisy and mushy footage at about 12dB or higher. On the AC90, you don't really get noise at all, but the image does go softer at higher gain, and if you're moving the camera rapidly you can see some "noise trails".

If you can keep it at 0dB of gain, you'll get simply stellar performance. But the higher the gain goes, the more compromised the footage may become, just like with any camera.
 
Thanks, Barry. Can't expect miracles.

The AC90 would be a camera upgrade for me, and improving image quality from my current situation is of primary importance. I may have to wait until I see some AC90 action footage in less-than-optimal light conditions, or I may have to consider trying it and returning it if it doesn't meet my needs.
 
Thanks for the good advice Barry

On my current HMC's I limit gain to 10db and always get a nice image and certainly no smudginess so I assume the 90's image will be pretty sharp at 10db too...With small chip cameras if the camera wants to go over 10 -12db then you need to add light if you want to maintain IQ. However the "noiseless" image (even compromised) looks at lot better than an image that is dotted full of video noise... it could save your bacon in low light shots without any extra light.

Is the cam still shipping this week??? If so we should have some interesting user feedback quite soon and that's the best kind to base a purchase on, whether it's good or bad..you know it's unbiased!!!

Chris
 
I've preordered mine, and hope to get it asap, ill try and provide any tests that anyone wants, when i do get it, unless someone gets it before me and does their own tests since mine will be shipping to australia, and with the storm in NYC and ordering from B and H it may or may not take a bit longer than usual
 
I think all independent tests will be most welcomed by all the forum .... Definately show the 130/160 guys that need autofocus that it really does work well but I think lots will want to see how it behaves in low light at at what point the image starts to go soft..that way using it indoors gives you an idea of when to toss a video light on the camera and when you can get away without one. Outdoor footage will be stunning anyway based on Barry's tests. Maybe potential buyers who have a few doubts might want to post their ideas for a special test so they can remove all doubt about whether the camera can handle their unique situation. I for one would be very interested in the slushy footage limit mark without any extra lighting..that would help me to know when I need to zap the light on. The HMC82 I have found handles low light beautifully as long as you don't push gain higher than 10db..when the EVF starts looking dim I turn on the light to highlight subjects and get nice exposure without noise in the background...with the backlit sensors the 90 should do a bit better but I'd like to know when resolution is no longer sharp!

Chris
 
ChrisHarding said:
Is the cam still shipping this week??? If so we should have some interesting user feedback quite soon and that's the best kind to base a purchase on, whether it's good or bad..you know it's unbiased!!!

Chris
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Well,IF the info on B&H Photo's website that they will get the camcorder in stock today ( October 30th ) proves to be accurate, then they theoretically should start shipping the camcorder the very next day ( 31st ). I know for a fact that is what happened when they received their first shipment of AC130 camcorders. I called them the day after receiving an email from them that the camcorder was in stock, and they confirmed to me that they had just started shipping the camcorder that day I called.
 
ransyn said:
and with the storm in NYC
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Good point to bring up. Hurricane Sandy may very well cause serious transportation issues in the New York area for another day or two.

I sure hope that there is no chance that B&H Photo itself gets flooded. I just looked at a map, and their office is only 3 blocks from the Hudson River!!
 
That's not at all good..on our news the storm surge was bigger than expected so you just might have cameras floating around the warehouse!! I certainly hope not!!!
 
There will be a new sticky thread: "What is that water sloshing sound coming from my AC90?"

ChrisHarding said:
That's not at all good..on our news the storm surge was bigger than expected so you just might have cameras floating around the warehouse!! I certainly hope not!!!
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Otherwise..... I was quietly fishing in the Hudson river when my line went taut and darn it in came a box with AG-AC90 on the side!!

I certainly hope that B&H have a secure and waterproof warehouse otherwise a lot of pre-orders just are not going to happen.

Seriously guys, my condolences to anyone here you has suffered any damage from the storm..hope you get it all back to normal quickly ... and they wonder why storms are named after women!!!

Good luck to all those it it's path and keep safe

Chris
 
On the picture with the spray painted hair, my remarks.

1.) It's not low light.
2.) It is however jpeg recompression of AVC. What frame rate? I watched the videos of before, but don't remember. If it was interlaced, it might be half resolution when screen grabbed.
3.) Slow speed shutter enabled? Makes it brighter but can blur if camera or subject has movement.
 
Sorry, but I just don't know what the settings were for the camera. At the point of shooting, Jan handed me the camera and I started shooting without looking at the settings. After the fact, while on the train ride (Gold Line) back I realized all sorts of things I should have looked at and tested. However, I had a class to teach that night and couldn't go back.


Bob Diaz
 
B and H just sent me an email saying due to hurricane sandy, carriers arent able to send out orders... so thats my preorder on hold for a few more days
 
Hi guys, Ive had mine pre-ordered for awhile now at B&H and they told me the shipment had been delayed until 11/15/12 - he also said this was changed some time last week (before the storm). Looks like they are telling us two different things from the post above. Mine said 11/15/12 though.
 
Joellrr said:
Hi guys, Ive had mine pre-ordered for awhile now at B&H and they told me the shipment had been delayed until 11/15/12 - he also said this was changed some time last week (before the storm). Looks like they are telling us two different things from the post above. Mine said 11/15/12 though.
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I pre-ordered it a few weeks back too, and was just told the same thing. Sounded like a delay from Panasonic unrelated to the Hurricane...suppose I learned a lesson about making project commitments dependent on a camcorder I do not actually have in my possession yet.
 
Perhaps I missed it but is their any comparisons against the Z10000? How about comparisons against either the TM900 or the newer X900 specifically when shooting 1080 60p in low light?
If not, then hopefully someone will do it in the future soon once it becomes fully available for consumers. Those cameras are much newer than the HMC40 so I think it would make it more an interesting test.
 
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