First Look, Panasonic AG-AC90 at DVExpo West

Hi Terry

That is a very nicely shot video! I think the biggest mistake people make is trying to make a dark scene into a daylight one with huge amounts of gain and of course the video noise makes it look terrible!! Your blacks there are perfect and I too limit gain at dark and dingy wedding receptions (normally the same as you but in rare instances up to 15db) My feeling is that if it's too dark at 12db then you need to keep it dark to preserve the background and ambience and then use careful lighting to just highlight necessary features.

Sure the AC-90 can go higher gain but do you really want a scene at midnight to end up looking like it was shot as dusk ... At wedding receptions both my HMC82's are on manual iris and locked at 12db and then I use on oncamera PowerLED dimmable light with barn doors to light only what I need to and it looks great!

Exposure wise I think you nailed that video perfectly!!

Chris
 
I agree with Chris. Nothing worse, in my opinion, than to try and produce an unrealistic scene using gain. The beauty of this new camera is the lack of grain in the dark areas. However, this camera really needs to be put to the test by actual special event videographers for a full evaluation. Candle lit scenes, stabilizers tests, duck pond shots and trees are all good initial evaluations but the true test comes with actual useage on either a 'gig' or a special event project such as stage productions, weddings and INDIE applications.
 
Terry_Martin said:
Here is an example of a HMC40 in a tough situation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahxm7CDriug&feature=plcp
Click to expand...

Nice production, Terry (great band, too). The HMC40 did an admirable job as a safety. I do think that I would lean toward a more sensitive camera if I was looking for an A cam for this type of work though.

Still looking forward to the AC90 for sports and general work, and at some point I'll get a chance to try it in in a club setting.
 
Here is a promo video I shot for my friends band back in 2008. I used my Panasonic DVC30. While the video is so so, pay attention to the lighting. One second you go from color gel, then to a blast of white spot, then to total dark, then back to light. You have no idea of the lighting until they start playing. The sound was recorded by using my wireless mic connected to their board. I was able to walk around the bar and get the same sound. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTm9J-dQTSo&feature=g-crec-u
jim
 
Hi Guys

Band settings are tough to shoot at the best of times and they seem to have this obsession for multicoloured spots on them that change every few seconds too!! Sadly you have no control over the lighting (unless of course, your brother is the lighting tech!!) so you have to shoot it the best way you can ... I think the Ac-90 will do a good job as long as you don't let the camera try to turn night into day! Definately a manual iris shoot if it's in a club environment... At weddings I cheat when the sun is out and often let the camera run on autoiris but for wedding receptions I automatically stay full manual otherwise the camera simply tries to expose for the pitch black darkness and everything is ruined!!

It will be neat to see the AC-90 actually being used at a wedding reception or band gig at night...."low light tests" with a candle on the coffee table are great but a real live situation would be a lot better!! Ok?? Who is going to shoot a live wedding or club event for us so we can actually see the 90 working in the field rather than in a controlled test??

Chris
 
I was somewhat dismayed by the lowlight performance of my HMC40 (went from VX2000 to FX7 to HMC40 so I was losing light at every upgrade).

Compared to a NEX-VG20 where audio is recorded off camera, how does it perform? Does anyone have access to/experience with both?
I understand the Moire issue with the larger sensor. I also understand the Shallow DOF which is a "nice to have."
In particular, I would like to know about image quality (across the board, not just selecting a "worst case" for either one), especially for event videography.

The OIS on the Sony 18-200 lens that comes with the VG20 is pretty impressive (OIS on NEX is in lens, not body). Any idea how it stacks up to the AG90?
Focus peaking looks like another "nice to have" feature when shooting with the EVF.

I love how Panasonic exposed the buttons and moved the LCD out of the way. I hereby present them with my own personal "Excellence in Design" award. I guess I'll have to send them a certificate of appreciation in a handsome plastic frame. Dual SD cards is another winner.

The difficulties of using an ND filter to open the aperture on the Panasonic and its non-removeably lens hood seem less fun, but not sure how shallow a DOF you could hope to get with 1/5th inch sensors unless you went 35mm adaptor (at the expense of another stop or two of light).
 
v3rlon said:
The difficulties of using an ND filter to open the aperture on the Panasonic and its non-removeably lens hood seem less fun, but not sure how shallow a DOF you could hope to get with 1/5th inch sensors unless you went 35mm adaptor (at the expense of another stop or two of light).
Click to expand...

External ND filtration can be important with AC90 to avoid diffraction at smaller apertures: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...-order&p=1986233981&viewfull=1#post1986233981

New model, VG30 is supposed to ship Nov 29.
 
Terry_Martin said:
There are two ways to shoot music video, live events and in the studio. DSLR's are great in studio settings, with controlled lighting, scripted shots, and lots of artistic use of DOF. Live events are much different. You can't control the lighting, camera positions, and if someone wants to put a mike stand between you and the lead singer.

I primarily shoot multi cam live music with an HPX250, HMC150, HMC40, XHA1, and a gopro. I just received the AC90 and I'm sure it will be a great replacement for the HMC40.

If your first question is about low light, it is the wrong question. The Ac90 will be fantastic in normal club style music events. The real question is how are you going to record the audio. Suggest that you consider audio quality first, otherwise you will be just like the other 20 youtube videos from cell phones, but with better image quality.

DOF in live events works the other way, you want as much as possible since it is almost impossible to work with manual focus, and AF can be a problem in some conditions.

My suggestion for live music events is to 1) learn to make great off camera audio recordings, and then 2) get friends and shoot with more than one camera.

Bottom line, I'm sure the AC90 would out perform any DSLR and many other cameras for live (uncontrolled) music events.
Click to expand...

It's interesting that you mention audio. I'm a sound engineer, so any gig I shoot I'll be multitracking too, so the on camera audio will only be used for sync'ing to the multitrack when I've mixed it.
 
I should probably show you all an example of what I've shot so far. This was shot on a 60D + 28-135mm opped camera stage left (by me), a 500D + 18-135mm stage right lock off and a 550D + 50mm prime lock off on the drums. This should give you an idea of the type of live situation I'm going to be filming. Audio was recorded via the in house DiGiCo SD9 via the MADI out through the UB MADI interface and mixed in Pro Tools.

I know it's really not a good video, but it's my first ever attempt at filming something, so go easy on me!

https://vimeo.com/52306891
 
captain_nesmo said:
It's interesting that you mention audio. I'm a sound engineer, so any gig I shoot I'll be multitracking too, so the on camera audio will only be used for sync'ing to the multitrack when I've mixed it.

I know it's really not a good video, but it's my first ever attempt at filming something, so go easy on me!

https://vimeo.com/52306891
Click to expand...

Great work on the audio. I would strongly recommend anyone viewing captain_nesmo's video to pull out a set of good headphones to appreciate the clarity. As a long time musician & recording engineer (before video) I strongly advise everyone shooting music to use more than an on camera mic.

My only caution to others is that having access to an advanced sound system and an accommodating sound guy is a rare luxury. I have evolved to direct mics for each musician, multitracked on a SD 788T 8 track recorder, and then a stereo pair for the room recorded either in a master cam, or in a SD Pix240.

Glad there are other old sound guys roaming around here.
 
Hey guys, I've had my AG-AC90 for a few days now (since I got home on Saturday). I'm totally new to Panasonic and the camcorder world. I own 2 Canon DSLRs and a GoPro 2. I'm trying to get the hang of the AG-AC90. I already sent off for the free book by Barry, hope that helps. Any beginner tips for me? I already got a nice shotgun mic that I have attached to it, as well as a 64g sd card. I need tips on getting the best quality image possible. I usually shoot at 1920p at 24 f/s.

What kind of settings should I have it on to do an outside wedding? I plan to bring it to a wedding im shooting in a couple of weeks (along with my dslrs) and use it on the ceremony part mainly. Thanks for any input!
 
Hi Joel

I would forget the shotgun for a wedding ceremony for starters!! I use two radio mic setups ..one on the groom and one on the officiant (or use voice recorders if you prefer) Vows audio capture is a lot more important than video at a ceremony!! Your 24P choice is obviously a personal one for a filmic look so probably set up the cam to match the DSLR with cine-like profiles ...(I shoot the opposite ..50i at all weddings and documentary style) I certainly wouldn't rely on a shotgun during the ceremony or the speeches but it works great everywhere else. I lock down the 90 on a tripod on the right of the "aisle" at outdoor ceremonies (to favour the bride) and keep that as a tight shot on the couple during vows and would use the DSLR's for wide and cutaway shots.

Bear in mind that despite it's great low light performance, if you use it at an indoor reception it still cannot see in the dark and most wedding receptions are really low light so if you plan on the 90 during the reception, squirt some decent light on the people doing speeches and it's worth locking the camera down at around 15gb gain and then highlighting the subject with a bit of on cam LED lighting...If you are not used to doing receptions they are super dim events!!!

Chris
 
ChrisHarding said:
Hi Joel

I would forget the shotgun for a wedding ceremony for starters!! I use two radio mic setups ..one on the groom and one on the officiant (or use voice recorders if you prefer) Vows audio capture is a lot more important than video at a ceremony!! Your 24P choice is obviously a personal one for a filmic look so probably set up the cam to match the DSLR with cine-like profiles ...(I shoot the opposite ..50i at all weddings and documentary style) I certainly wouldn't rely on a shotgun during the ceremony or the speeches but it works great everywhere else. I lock down the 90 on a tripod on the right of the "aisle" at outdoor ceremonies (to favour the bride) and keep that as a tight shot on the couple during vows and would use the DSLR's for wide and cutaway shots.

Bear in mind that despite it's great low light performance, if you use it at an indoor reception it still cannot see in the dark and most wedding receptions are really low light so if you plan on the 90 during the reception, squirt some decent light on the people doing speeches and it's worth locking the camera down at around 15gb gain and then highlighting the subject with a bit of on cam LED lighting...If you are not used to doing receptions they are super dim events!!!

Chris
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips man. Yea I got a lav mic, but I only have one. Do u think I could put it on the officiant and be okay? My friend has done a lot of weddings and he's only used shotgun mics and his audio is very weak but he has never had any complaints because his video is so awesome. Was also wondering if I should drop the GoPro2 cam down on the ground in the middle of where the bride and groom stand for a cool alternative "fisheye" angle. Maybe only use it for a few seconds total. Thanks for any information you give me.
 
Hi Joel

For me one lav mic should go on the groom rather than the officiant as their vows are the most important audio to get! I put it a little lower down than usual on the jacket lapel (near the top button so you get no pops and the groom/bride mouth distance is more equal. I use my GoPro at ALL weddings too!! However I tend to put it on a light stand so it's about 8' in the air and does a semi-aerial shot of the bridal party and guests...brides also like to get shots of the whole scenario and it works pretty well for me. I don't shoot the Hero in fisheye but at medium angle ...still some curvature but it's a nicer shot.

Chris
 
Try this setting bellow. Works for me. You may just want to adjust the detail lower for portrait close-ups. There is NO perfect Custom scene setting as the environment is always changing. Use Manual WB as much as possible.

Sync Set Type SEC
Sync Scan 1/48.0
Detail =+1
Vdetail=+2
Detail Coring + 5

Chroma level +3
Chroma Phase 0
Color temp Ach and Bch -2
Master Ped. =1
Airis)
DRS Off
DRS effect OFF
DRS Effect 1
GammaLOW
Knee Mid
Matrix Cine Like
Skin tone OFF



Joellrr said:
Hey guys, I've had my AG-AC90 for a few days now (since I got home on Saturday). I'm totally new to Panasonic and the camcorder world. I own 2 Canon DSLRs and a GoPro 2. I'm trying to get the hang of the AG-AC90. I already sent off for the free book by Barry, hope that helps. Any beginner tips for me? I already got a nice shotgun mic that I have attached to it, as well as a 64g sd card. I need tips on getting the best quality image possible. I usually shoot at 1920p at 24 f/s.

What kind of settings should I have it on to do an outside wedding? I plan to bring it to a wedding im shooting in a couple of weeks (along with my dslrs) and use it on the ceremony part mainly. Thanks for any input!
Click to expand...
 
ChrisHarding said:
For me one lav mic should go on the groom rather than the officiant as their vows are the most important audio to get! I put it a little lower down than usual on the jacket lapel (near the top button so you get no pops and the groom/bride mouth distance is more equal.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I used to do when I filmed weddings. We only had 1 radio mic and used to get good sound from all three participants in most cases.
 
I'm not sure where the officiant stands at USA outdoor weddings, but here they normally stand behind the couple in the middle making a neat triangle and good audio with a single mic...I do get the occasional one that insists on standing way off on the side to give just the couple only the limelight so with those I clip a second mic and transmitter on the officiant as well!!

Chris
 
Lou Bruno said:
Try this setting bellow. Works for me. You may just want to adjust the detail lower for portrait close-ups. There is NO perfect Custom scene setting as the environment is always changing. Use Manual WB as much as possible.

Sync Set Type SEC
Sync Scan 1/48.0
Detail =+1
Vdetail=+2
Detail Coring + 5

Chroma level +3
Chroma Phase 0
Color temp Ach and Bch -2
Master Ped. =1
Airis)
DRS Off
DRS effect OFF
DRS Effect 1
GammaLOW
Knee Mid
Matrix Cine Like
Skin tone OFF
Click to expand...

Thanks to whoever took the time to figure out these settings. There sure is a lot of variables. I am going to print those pages of the manual with those settings marked.
 
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