First HD100 24p Footage available for DL

Jarred Land

President/Founder
Staff member
Hey everyone, Barry Green did some undercover brother work at WEVA today and was able to pull footage from the NTSC camera on the floor, and was able to get some 24p stuff in the can.

Here you go Barry take it away:
 
Thanks for hosting this stuff, Jarred! Jarred asked me to do a writeup for it, and I said "naw, just post the files, they're self-explanatory". And of course, now that I look at the list, there's nothing self-explanatory -- so, big J, here's the writeup you asked me for in the first place! :)

It's some big stuff to download, there's about 330 megabytes there or more (and, as you'll soon see, it's not very worthwhile footage... just so you're forewarned...) All the still shots are direct extractions from the timeline, saved as .PNG so they'd be mathematically lossless. That means no additional artifacts introduced by JPG compression -- what you see is exactly what the camera produced.

The first three are 0db-gain, 12db-gain, and 18db-gain. It's the same shot, just showing the effect of gain (the autoexposure compensated the iris, so the shots are all roughly the same exposure, the difference being in gain). You'll see that the gain is very noisy, and it sucks out color and detail from the picture. After viewing the effects of HD100 gain, I'd say it's best to avoid it. It's not a "free ride" like it can be on the Z1 -- the Z1/FX1 gain is a lot "cleaner". The HD100's is noisy. And the more you crank up the gain, the more visible any "dead pixels" become.
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/0dB-gain.png
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/12dB-gain.png
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/18dB-gain.png



black-compress-max and black-stretch-max are stills that show the effect of a couple of menu settings -- it's the same shot, but with the black-stretch set to -3 (for maximum compression) or to +3 (for maximum stretching of the shadows).
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/HD100-...ompress-max.png
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/HD100-...Stretch-max.png


chroma-gain-normal and chroma-gain-max demonstrate the difference in the color palette. "normal" refers to the regular, default, standard palette -- which is flat and drab, something that people have repeatedly complained about in the images they've seen from the HD100. But if you crank up the chroma gain (I think what I demonstrate here is +10) you'll see that you can get some really eye-poppingly bright, saturated colors out of this camera.
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/HD100-...Gain-Normal.png
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/HD100-Chroma-Gain-Max.png
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/HD100-...in-Normal-2.png
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/HD100-...-Gain-Max-2.png


small-dropout shows what the dropouts looked like. I got many, many dropouts in the first couple of minutes of tape that I shot (brand-new sealed MQ tape, and I cleaned the heads on the playback camera before digitizing). Still got a lot of dropouts. Now, to the HD100's credits, a dropout doesn't *necessarily* seize a whole GOP, like it does on the Sony. I have seen full-GOP dropouts (interestingly enough, on JVC's own demo footage there was a full-GOP lockup dropout) but it looks like some dropouts affect only part of the picture. These shots are a couple of examples of that. In this file, there's a big wide band of dropout right in the center of the screen; starts above the plant and extends to past the wine bottles:
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/HDV-Small-Dropout.png In this shot, the dropout's near the bottom of the screen, almost the entire width of the screen:
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/HDV-Small-Dropout-2.png




Finally, there's a still photo that demonstrates what the "motion smoothing" filter does. This was a horizontal pan, with "motion smoothing" on. As you'll clearly see, it's pretty much a double image. Nothing "smooth" about it, and definitely nothing like a replacement for 60i. I haven't decided if it's useless or not yet, but it's most definitely not what people were hoping for (a "live video look" like you get from 60i or 60p). It just seems to blur anything in motion. More testing is necessary. Look especially at the double image on the word "Accueil" on the door -- that's where it's most easy to see the effect. Compare that with the still shot from 0db-gain and you'll see what "motion smoothing" is doing.
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/What-Motion-Smoothing-Does.pnghttp://www.24puser.com/hd100/What-M...othing-Does.png


Now, about the motion files: these are straight .m2t files, directly captured from the tape. No recompression, no transcoding, no intermediate codec, no color correction, no transitions, no re-rendering. These are bit-for-bit exactly what the camera captured. These are as "native" and "raw" as you'll ever get. These files can be played back by Windows Media Player, or if you have an HD1 or HD10 (or HD100) or a JVC HDV deck, you can download them through firewire and record them on tape or play them on a television. They're huge files, because they're the original 19-megabit source files. If you have trouble playing them, you might try renaming the files to have a .mpg extension.

Also, these files can be dropped straight onto the timeline in Vegas 5.0 or later. I don't know if they'll work in other editors; if you have an HDV-enabled editor, they should.

All these files are junk -- they're just cheeseball panning-around-the-tradeshow shots. No formal testing, no controlled circumstances. So don't expect anything fancy or good -- this is just what I could grab before someone wrestled the camera away from me! :)

First, these are the first 24p files that I think have been made available. I believe the first two are regular 24p, and the third one has the motion smoothing filter enabled. But I could be wrong, it was hard to keep 'em all straight.
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/24p-B.m2t
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/24p.m2t
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/24p-ms-on.m2t


These are 30p files, with motion smoothing either on or off, as the name implies.
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/30p-ms-off-B.m2t
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/30p-ms-on-B.m2t


This is 30p, with motion smoothing, and the booth guy wanted me to use gain to brighten up the picture, so this one offers 18db of gain...
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/30p-ms-on-18db-gain.m2t


Finally, these were the first two files I shot -- 30p with motion smoothing on and off. They were early on the tape and got hit with lots of dropouts. But if you can look past the dropouts, these are the most comparable motion smoothing on vs. off shots that I took. These are the clips that the "small dropout" pictures were extracted from, if you want to see how those dropouts look on actual recorded video.
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/30p-ms-off-dropouts.m2t
http://www.24puser.com/hd100/30p-ms-on-dropouts.m2t

As for capturing 24p -- JVC told me that pretty much only Cineform could do it, in Premiere, and that other editors would be making it available soon. Much to my surprise I found that the "Pixela HD Capture" utility that comes bundled with the JVC HD1 can capture 24p files. And not only that, so can HDV Rack -- it's fully 24p-compatible. I captured the clips off of the HD1, and the HD1 couldn't even play the 24p clips, but HDV Rack sure could. And the files are fully compatible with Vegas 5.0, so presumably they're compatible with Vegas 6.0 as well.


Finally, about the "dead pixel" -- there's one or two dead pixels in every one of these frames, every one of these shots. It's easiest to see it when the backround is dark or when gain is on. If you want to see the dead pixel, first make sure that you're seeing the image in its full 1280x720 resolution (scaled-down sizes will hide it). The most noticeable one is in the lower left section. I've circled where it appears on this picture:
dead-pixel.jpg


Look in the dark areas and you'll see it's impossible to miss -- once you see it, you can't take your eyes off it. You'll see it in every file, every frame. The "24p.m2t" file shows it very clearly as a glowing red dot, it kind of disappears against white but when it's against dark it's very noticeable and very distracting -- far moreso on a television, but still clearly visible on the computer.
 
jesus.. when you said you couldnt think of anything to write i knew something was wrong.. I had to check twice to make sure i was talking to the right person. Good to see you came to your senses.
 
Great stuff Barry!!!!! After all the speculation and marketing and politics we now have a relevant source to evaluate. It'll take a while to download but it's great you kept it untouched. Thank you!!!
 
Under cover brother huh.... Yo, Barry Greene, are you working for Panasonic and JVC now. Double dippin is not a bad gig. Nice info. Some of the links are coming up MIA though.

great stuff...
 
Sure is noisey footage. You'd think the people manning the JVC booth would make sure they had a camera with all the pixels fully functioning. Glad I'm waiting for the Panasonic Cam.
 
It seems unusual that so many of the early reports have dead pixels. Barry, how well is the camera balanced for shooting? Any operational thoughts? What do you think about the Fujinon lens?
 
I thought we had heard horror stories about dropouts causing the whole GOP to be lost. That apparently isn't the case. There are sure lots of them, however.

Watching on an LCD monitor, I don't find the 24p or 30p displeasing in appearance--much better looking than the Z-1 which seems to have that odd motion blur and interlace combined. With any control of lighting and detail settings, I think this camera has some good potential--if the pixels don't turn out to be an issue.

Barry, did you find it easy enough to see focus clearly in that setting?
 
Now this is more like it. This footage is way better than the first stuff we saw. I thought the image quality on the footage with drop-outs was really good, except for the drop-outs themselves of course.

Not a huge step from the Z1 but far better than what we've seen so far.

Let's hope a better tape and lens will improve results even further.
 
Sheeesh... that son of a ***** seems prone to dropouts. Capturing to the FS4 would obviously alleviate that issue, but I'm really concerned with the amount of stuck pixels these units seem to be getting.

This new footage certainly demonstrates that the camera is capable of capturing a decent image; under a controlled setting, it'll probably kick out a great looking picture, but I'd be royally pissed if I got back to the office only to find some stuck pixels that weren't noticed while shooting.

The VariCam & CineAlta will get the occasional stuck pixel, but the amount of complaints vs. the actual amount of HD100 units available is pretty scary.

ciao,

harlan
 
stephenlnoe said:
Under cover brother huh.... Yo, Barry Greene, are you working for Panasonic and JVC now. Double dippin is not a bad gig.
No, I work for myself. I don't work for JVC or Panasonic (or Serious Magic or Prompter People or any of the other companies whose products I loudly, and repeatedly, endorse).

I dig around to find out what's what, and lay it out there for the world to judge. If I find something I like, I tell people why I like it and what's good about it. I'd love to be quadruple-quintuple-bazillion-uple dipping, because that would mean that there were that many awesome praiseworthy products out there! :laugh:
 
Isaac_Brody said:
It seems unusual that so many of the early reports have dead pixels.
That bothers me too. A lot. But, also, keep in mind that usually happy customers don't write in and complain, so when you see complaints, you're usually seeing a disproportionate number. If you didn't have dead pixels, would you even think to write in and say "hey, my camera has no dead pixels, isn't that great?" 'cause in the years I've had a DVX, and been on this board, I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about dead pixels. Same with the Sony cameras I used before it. In fact, the last time I had a dead pixel was on a Sony DSR500 -- and with that, you just do a black-balance and it automatically masks the dead pixel, and you go on from there. So the fact that we're seeing multiple reports (at least 5, if you count the reports from England, New Zealand, Italy, the camera I used, and the camera that shot the JVC demo footage). Needless to say, I'll be picking up the camera in person down at EVS, and I'll fire it up and test it before taking delivery.

Barry, how well is the camera balanced for shooting?
Didn't get a chance with the handheld unit. The one I used was stuck on a Miller tripod, with a mattebox on the front and follow focus. It was very, very front heavy -- I adjusted the sliding plate to get it to sit as far back on the tripod as possible, and that helped a little.

As far as shoulder-mount, I didn't get to try it. But I figure with a big battery and the FireStore back there ('cause I ain't shooting without one, or without HDV Rack!) it should be fine.

And for all those people who were talking about comparing size, all I gotta say is -- this thing is T I N Y. You can argue it's a couple of inches longer than a DVX, but when you're looking at it all you can think is "man is this thing small."

Any operational thoughts? What do you think about the Fujinon lens?
It feels like a broadcast camera. Switches and handgrip and basically what you'd expect. In other words, it's nice. As far as the lens, operationally it's nice, they had a follow focus on it so I wasn't using the lens' focus ring directly. I went looking for chromatic aberrations and such and didn't really notice any, except I've got one clip that has a very, very puzzling artifact in it, something I don't remember seeing with any other broadcast camera I've used. So I want to test the same circumstance on a different camera before determining whether it's a problem or not.
 
WarrenS said:
I thought we had heard horror stories about dropouts causing the whole GOP to be lost. That apparently isn't the case. There are sure lots of them, however.
Dropouts seizing a whole GOP does happen -- it happens on the Sony whenever you get a dropout (video freezes for 15 frames or 1/2 second), and it can happen on the JVC too -- on the demo footage that they had playing in a loop, there was a full-GOP lockup. The JVC's GOP is much shorter, so the freeze-up isn't for nearly so long. But it can happen. It looks like JVC's somehow managed to make it not seize up the whole GOP every time. And the dropouts were more prevalent at the beginning of the tape, they happened less frequently as time went on.

And, let's keep in mind that I have no idea how many hours were on that camera, or what type of tape had been run through it before I put in an MQ. It may have had a hundred hours of Sony tape through it, so we could see the effects of head gumming from different lubricants. There's no way to know. But it's something to be aware of -- HDV shooters should understand that these dropouts could happen, and if they're shooting once-in-a-lifetime footage, I think they'd be foolish to rely on tape alone. JVC should bundle the FireStore and a copy of HDV Rack with every camera sold -- that would be the bomb! :)

With any control of lighting and detail settings, I think this camera has some good potential--if the pixels don't turn out to be an issue.
Stay tuned -- tomorrow I should get a chance to help someone else deliver some "scoop" footage under controlled lighting circumstances, etc. Don't know when the footage will be available for posting, but I'll definitely know more by Saturday.


Barry, did you find it easy enough to see focus clearly in that setting?
Most of the time I found myself focusing on the CRT, which was a little distracting but it's just the habit I kept falling into. But when using the "Focus Assist" function (which basically is a nice sharp colored "peaking" function) I found that the viewfinder seemed quite reliable in settling in to accurate focus. I'd focus using focus assist, then verify against the CRT, and it was usually spot-on. And that was using wide-open iris; obviously focus will be a little less critical the more the iris is stopped down.

The other thing that helped in focusing was the extreme telephoto you could push that lens to! Zoom in to 88mm, pop the iris open, use "focus assist", and you can pretty much nail pinpoint focus every time. Then zoom back out, stop down, and as long as your backfocus is set accurately, you can get reliable sharp focus with the system.

Operationally, one thing really bothered me, which is that I couldn't find a way to get the 24p or 30p look on the analog monitor. That was really annoying. When I shot those 30p ms on/off clips, it looked glass-smooth on the monitor and on the viewfinder. I was startled by how different it looked on tape. I mean, I know 30p, I know what to expect, but when you're shooting and you're seeing glass-smooth footage in the viewfinder and on the CRT, you just don't think of what's happening to the footage on tape. What you see on the monitor or viewfinder is *NOT* what you get on tape, and that's something every HDV shooter will have to remember!!! Which is another great reason to get HDV Rack -- it'll show you exactly what's going on tape (excepting any dropouts, of course) -- so if you have a fast-enough computer, you can see full-resolution full-screen, full-motion playback and know exactly what you're getting. But, it's a little delayed, I think it has to be at least a GOP delayed.

So, let me put it this way -- you'd better be a heck of a good shooter and know your gear inside and out if you want to get good results from the JVC. With any luck, tomorrow we'll extract some good results, so we'll know what the camera is capable of. I bet it can do some great work. But I also believe we'll see the worst footage coming from the HD100, because novice shooters are going to be *extremely* challenged to get the best from that camera. You've got to know how to shoot, how to focus, and how to move the camera to avoid stuttering, and how to frame your shots to avoid overtaxing the MPEG compression. If you do all that, I bet you'll get great results from it -- I can't wait to dig into the menus and tweak the daylights out of that camera. But for novices, they won't stand a chance... :shocked:
 
speaking of which, i was glad to see on the JVC brochure they really push the hard drive option, its good to see that direct to disk recording is starting to become mainstream.
 
harlan said:
Sheeesh... that son of a ***** seems prone to dropouts.
Let me try to temper this -- like I said above, don't draw any conclusions based on the number of dropouts I got. There's no way to know how many hours that camera had on it, and what type of tape it had had run through it, and whether the new MQ tape caused the "mixed lubricant" issue or anything like that.

I do think people need to be aware that dropouts can happen, but I'm also quite certain that what I experienced is atypical -- I can't imagine that an average user, using the same tape stock and caring for their gear properly, would encounter that level of dropouts. Nevertheless, it is what I encountered, so I put it up there, warts 'n' all. But I do not believe that it is typical. The footage later on the tape had far fewer dropouts, although some did still pop up.

Capturing to the FS4 would obviously alleviate that issue
I'm calling Rush today and adding that to my order! Also, HDV Rack for any situation where the cable is reachable is a *must*, for my peace of mind.

but I'm really concerned with the amount of stuck pixels these units seem to be getting.
I am too. I hope we get an official response from JVC to announce if there's a self-repair/masking process (like the Sony DSR series does) and/or what the repair policy is. As mezelf or someone else said -- with three million pixels in there, it's gonna happen -- one or two are going to go bad. If you can mask 'em, then it's no big deal. If you can't, then in my opinion it's a *big* deal. Maybe a dealbreaker. Hopefully we can hear more reports from more users.

And to anyone who gets their hands on an HD100, please test for dead pixels. Just put the lens cap on, pump it up to 18db of gain, and let the camera warm up for a few minutes. Then capture the footage (or view on a 1280x720 HD monitor) and see if there are any stuck pixels, and report. I'd love to start hearing some reports of "none here" and "none on mine" -- that'd be some very welcome news.

but I'd be royally pissed if I got back to the office only to find some stuck pixels that weren't noticed while shooting.
Again, like I said above -- it isn't just pixels that you won't notice while shooting. You also don't see the effects of the motion smoothing filter on the viewfinder or on a monitor. And I couldn't find a way to display the 24p or 30p effect either -- everything looked glass-smooth at all times in the viewfinder, and that is misleading. So that's why I say you gotta have HDV Rack -- that's about the only way that you'll see what you're *actually* getting. Or at least play back any footage before moving on, although I hate rewinding/reviewing footage off tape in the field, as there have been occasions when I've lost the end of a clip from not having fast-forwarded enough, etc...

The VariCam & CineAlta will get the occasional stuck pixel, but the amount of complaints vs. the actual amount of HD100 units available is pretty scary.
Yes, they can get stuck pixels, and it even happens on SD cams as well, but the better cams have algorithms to mask it -- which means you never see it, you never notice it, and it's no big deal. The HD100 may also have such an ability, but I haven't heard of whether it actually does or not, or how you'd go about masking the pixels, if such a process does exist.

If there isn't such a process, I highly recommend to Graeme Nattress to write a dead-pixel-masker plug-in, I think it'd be very popular!
 
Barry, How'd you capture the HDV 24P? You mentioned a couple of different methods but which one did you use? Plus these files (video wise) will come into Edition as 24PHDV (yea!). I figured it would because the frame rate and aspect are already listed in the available timeline properties (including 25P).

I took the clips in and ran them through the CX color corrector and I have to say the clips held up well. The noise is not nearly as bad as I'd heard. I cranked the luminance and the blacks held well. It would pass in the broadcast space for sure.

good deal...
 
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