Firmware update V1.2 (2009-17009)

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Jules: Nobody's gonna hurt anybody. We're gonna be like three little Fonzies here. And what's Fonzie like? Come on Yolanda what's Fonzie like?
Yolanda: Cool?
Jules: What?
Yolanda: He's cool.
Jules: Correctamundo. And that's what we're gonna be. We're gonna be cool. Now Ringo, I'm gonna count to three, and when I count three, you let go of your gun, and sit your ass down. But when you do it, you do it cool. Ready? One... two... three.
 
commanderspike said:
They could just say they've Optimised 24p AVCHD performance, without mentioning any fault. Alas... nothing.

Some may think I've moaning too much about mud, but Panasonic are running out of excuses. They've had enough time to put a fix through QA now. Why doesn't the GH1 have B Frames? Why don't they acknowledge the issue at all and say whether it is fixable? Its the lack of transparency that gets me. Enough people have made the effort to contact them about it... why can't they just say 'yes' or 'no'? It's just common courtesy, and in all due respect to us customers, we didn't expect mud when we chose to buy a GH1, did we?
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theyre probably saving that update for the gh2 so more people would want to buy it T.T
 
Luis Caffesse said:
but in my opinion, if I'm noticing technical flaws in the codec in a piece, then the filmmaker did something wrong well before the camera did.
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A reasonable point, but 'wide shot + texture = wrong' does cut down an awful lot of possibilities. I was very into the GH1 when it was just coming out and I'm still considering it for budgetary reasons, but I feel like I'd rather a bit lower performance across the board than to have it quite good in most contexts but really fail in a few.

Ozpeter said:
However, it does appear to be a bit of a suicide mission in terms of what AVCHD in general and the GH1 in particular can do in some outdoor situations.
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I'm inclined to agree. It's tough on the budget filmmaker because when you don't have a ton of money for art direction then nature provides the best sets. And what's going on here is pretty harsh - I could see it even on the normal size vimeo window. Ouch.
 
wth ive been having problems updating the lens. ive been able to update the body by putting the bin file into the root folder of my sd card but when i try that with the lens update it doesnt work... anyone have any idea why
 
Eddy Robinson said:
A reasonable point, but 'wide shot + texture = wrong' does cut down an awful lot of possibilities. I was very into the GH1 when it was just coming out and I'm still considering it for budgetary reasons, but I feel like I'd rather a bit lower performance across the board than to have it quite good in most contexts but really fail in a few.
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It is great in a few and really does fail in a few and there are no work arounds.

I did stick with my GH1 and hoped Panasonic would fix it with a firmware update. Okay they haven't. Too bad.

But I have decided to jump over to Canon for a bit, try the full frame 5D and then the 7D, see if I prefer the 5D with my Contax Zeiss over the GH1 and then make a decision. It looks like its goodbye to the GH1. The image quality can be great but in certain circumstances I found it just doesn't come up to scratch.
 
I must say that I am really surprised at your change of heart here. I remember that just a couple of weeks ago, you still had some harsh words about Canon's cameras and their usability deficiencies compared to the GH1. And you were the one who started the "no need to jump ship" thread. I'm both pleased and saddened by this development. I'm pleased that you've stopped being such a GH1 fanboy and started being more reasonable, but I'm saddened that you feel like you actually have to "jump ship." (Why not keep it?) Still, I'm excited to hear/read about what you think of Canon's DSLRs, now that you've opened yourself to them.
 
Well the simple reason is, much of the footage shot with the full frame sensor is stunning and it makes full use of the lens, plus my girlfriend is able to bring one over from Taiwan for £300 less than I can get one for in the UK. We're going on holiday next week so I thought it'd be a good chance to find out for myself how the 5D useability affects me and how the image quality compares to the GH1. Then I'll sell one or the other.

If the 5D has a flaw that I consider fatal, I'll keep the GH1. But I am very attracted by the fact that my Zeiss 28mm becomes a true wide and my 85mm F1.4 becomes a true portrait lens not a telephoto. So it is not just the AVCHD compression artefacts that is influencing this move.

I do think people sometimes get a bit tied up in justifying their purchases and becoming fans of one camera, and I hope to avoid this myself and to try out other options if they're feasible and within budget.

Plus I like that 24p and potentially a RAW video adapter for the CF card slot is coming to the 5D's next firmware update :) This rumour has got legs. I'd say it's 90% there.

As for the 7D. I am curious to try that but it really is just a 5D with a smaller sensor, annoying crop factor, worse low light performance and the only usability improvement is a small stills / video switch on the back and a slightly better LCD. It isn't the great leap many seem to think it is over the 5D. I am amazed the 5D has all but been forgotten about. I am sure it will get the frame rate options of the 7D in the next firmware update and perhaps even 720p.
 
My 50 cents to the never ending story ;-) ...

Well, commanderspike, for some reason your GH1 seems to be much worse than others. I use my GH1 ONLY in 1080p24 mode and so far only outdoors, and a lot of that on wide shots, and I cannot confirm the "mud" issue you are constantly reporting. The only thing I've noticed so far is in low contrast situations that below a certain level the details get lost. I had a look at your music video on vimeo, it looks awful, I agree! But I have never seen this on mine. Check out yourself,

http://www.vimeo.com/6563359 - mainly wide shots at the beginning with lots of trees

http://www.vimeo.com/6659050 - some outdoors wide shots (easier here for the codec, I would agree)

Something nobody has mentioned so far, the CMOS does not exhibit any kind of smear and it can handle very high contrasts - a key ingredient for "film like" stuff. I am still amazed with this little cam and can only encourage others to go for it!!

best regards
 
GMC said:
My 50 cents to the never ending story ;-) ...

Well, commanderspike, for some reason your GH1 seems to be much worse than others. I use my GH1 ONLY in 1080p24 mode and so far only outdoors, and a lot of that on wide shots, and I cannot confirm the "mud" issue you are constantly reporting. The only thing I've noticed so far is in low contrast situations that below a certain level the details get lost. I had a look at your music video on vimeo, it looks awful, I agree! But I have never seen this on mine. Check out yourself,

http://www.vimeo.com/6563359 - mainly wide shots at the beginning with lots of trees

http://www.vimeo.com/6659050 - some outdoors wide shots (easier here for the codec, I would agree)

Something nobody has mentioned so far, the CMOS does not exhibit any kind of smear and it can handle very high contrasts - a key ingredient for "film like" stuff. I am still amazed with this little cam and can only encourage others to go for it!!

best regards
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Same here! I've used 1080/24 exclusively for the past 7/8 weeks. My GH1 performs excellently...

I have zero complaints!



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Thanks GMC for the 'awful' comment on my music video. Much appreciated :)

All I am saying is that with fluid movement, on a steadicam in a highly detailed scene with trees & grass plus actress = mud. This to me was unacceptable because I like to move the camera around a scene and not have this 'jump' of compression artefacts which takes the viewer 'out' of the viewing experience.

As for the detail retained in the music video, you can judge for yourself: http://www.vimeo.com/6525278

I just think I would have had better results on the 5D, that's all.
 
GMC said:
Haha, I hope you understood that my "awful" was referring to the mud (which I confirm can be clearly seen there) and not the video in itself ... ;-)
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Haha, yes... I *think* that's what you meant ;)

Yeah the mud doesn't do it any favours, but I couldn't find a workaround. The singer wants me to go back and do another video this time for her song, so the only workaround I can think of is to get a 5D and see if that does any better on the compression front.

It may be worth pointing out that the raw AVCHD footage on a TV looks a bit better. Transcoding in FCP and Vimeo don't do footage any favours.

Portraiture shots, still scenes and scenes without a lot of foilage = fine usually. Shallow DOF also helps a lot. But this mud and a lack of even an acknowledgement from Panasonic, let alone a firmware update after two consecutive rollouts really bums me out.
 
My last Panasonic still camera and my last Panasonic video camera were never firmware-updated at all. My first Panasonic still camera did have a firmware upgrade - and they charged people for it!
 
Panasonic... if you're listening. Please DO charge me for a proper firmware update, if you can make one possible. It'd be cheaper than having to buy a GH2 and selling the GH1, and cheaper than keeping the 5D and selling the GH1.
 
commanderspike said:
As for the 7D. I am curious to try that but it really is just a 5D with a smaller sensor, annoying crop factor, worse low light performance and the only usability improvement is a small stills / video switch on the back and a slightly better LCD. It isn't the great leap many seem to think it is over the 5D.
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Er, it also is $1,000 less expensive, and has 24p, with native 24p recording (no fields or pulldown). And, it's got 720p mode, and it has 30p and 50p and 60p for variable-frame-rate slow motion. And that smaller sensor gives you cinema field of view and cinema depth of field.

I am amazed the 5D has all but been forgotten about.
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Well, it doesn't do what most people here want (24p, cine FOV, cine DOF) and it costs $1,000 more. I'm not surprised it's much less interesting to folks now.

I am sure it will get the frame rate options of the 7D in the next firmware update and perhaps even 720p.
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Well, on this one I would caution you -- you were certain the GH1 would get a codec update in firmware, and were disappointed when it didn't. So don't get caught in the same trap; don't be surprised if you're sure that the 5D will get updates, and it doesn't. Don't buy something that doesn't do what you want, hoping that it'll change in the future. But it for what it is, and make certain that you'll be happy with it as it is, because there's no guarantee it'll ever change.
 
Firmware can do a lot.

Canon's approach to firmware updates and the fact there is a 3rd party community firmware dev community centred around the 5D Mark II is one of the factors influencing my decision to step back from Panasonic for a while.

How big a deal cine FOV and cine DOF is based purely on sensor size (APS-C being equal to S35mm) I really do doubt. The Nikon D90 is APS-C but does cinema not too many favours with it's shortcomings. Plus doesn't FOV and DOF get dictated by the lens?

Here is one other MAJOR factor influencing my thinking right now:

If I attached my Contax Zeiss 28mm F2.8 to the 5D it would have full frame coverage, true 28mm wide angle and very shallow DOF. I could then stop the lens down to achieve 7D / cine levels of DOF which is a bit deeper.

Now if I put the same Zeiss on the GH1 or 7D firstly it would not be wide. Secondly it could not be stopped down as much while maintaining cine levels of shallow DOF so with a lot of lenses I'd have to have them wide open which would give a softer image.

The 28mm is incrediblely sharp around F11.

The full frame sensor also gives me more room for cropping, esp. for stills.

But in the end, had Panasonic managed to fix the codec I would have have wiped out my number 1 reason (the codec) for going to the 5D. On price, as far as I understand it, the 7D can be had for £1200 when I go to Japan in November and the 5D can be had for £1500 in Taiwan right now (brand new). So the price factor isn't very large between the 7D and superior (in my opinion!) 5D, nor is it HUGE over the GH1 especially considering the GH1 crop factor means I have had to spend a fortune to get a fast portrait lens (Leica 25mm F1.4 - £600) and a 20mm equiv. wide. (10-20mm Canon EF - £350)
 
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Barry_Green said:
Don't buy something that doesn't do what you want, hoping that it'll change in the future. But it for what it is, and make certain that you'll be happy with it as it is, because there's no guarantee it'll ever change.
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Just felt that needed to be repeated....
great advice... which can be extrapolated to life in general.
:)
 
...and if you don't like it so much to be burning it in every thread, sell it and move on. Least that is what I would do if I hated my GH1 codec so much. I for one think it is a great camera. It's difficult to find information about the thread's subject, firmware update for instance, through all the mythical mud bashing every page. I'm also curious why there are so many "filmmakers" with the GH1 yet I hardly see them in the dvxfest right now. So is this a site to just announce wishful thinking or actual knowledge of the craft? My request would be to keep it on subject or start a new subject of mud bashing if you must for the sake of everybody else. These are great forums of knowledge but I'd hate it to turn out to just be a "my codec is better than yours" cock fight.

Now back on topic... before I did the firmware update I took note on it's AF capability and after the update I noticed an improvement. However it is still not perfect in low light but I wouldn't expect it to be either. I would still stick with MF most of the time until you really must need it for tracking. And of course this is if you are using it creatively instead of your typical home video of your kids and stuff. For that it works just fine.
 
Firmware can do a lot.
Canon's approach to firmware updates ...
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Canon's approach to firmware updates is: we will not add new features, we save that for the next new product. We use firmware updates to fix bugs.

They acknowledge that they made an extraordinary diversion from their standard practices to add manual controls to the 5D, but the product manager has been with canon for 20 years and he said he would have bet money that they'd never do that. It surprised him totally that they added features. Normally they would only ever do a firmware update to fix bugs.

Don't count on any new features added by Canon for the 5D -- he specifically said that there were no firmware updates in process, and that 24p is not coming to the 5D.

I agree that Magic Lantern is one of the most compelling "features" of the Canon lineup, and is probably my #2 consideration for ordering a 7D (the main one being 1080/24p natively with no pulldown). The prospect of a Magic Lantern for the 7D is tantalizing. But I am not counting on it, and I'm certain Canon won't be adding features to the 5D, as their top boss has said that they won't.
 
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