Firmware update V1.2 (2009-17009)

ROne said:
And I hope the 'pro' version would be marked up.

I don't want my business destroyed by indie film makers doing things too cheaply for the sake of their ideas/profit. Indie film makers have never had it so good anyway.

I say bring on the more expensive pro version. Cheap is very rarely good anyway (I ain't too happy the GH1 body is Chinese, when the rest of the Panasonic stuff admittedly broadcast is made in Japan where costs are higher and the workforce is better treated).
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The Japanese domestic GH1 body is made in Japan and retails in Japan for 40% less than the PAL or USA versions which are made in China. UK RRP for the Chinese made GH1 is £1299 and in Japan the kit sells for £700.

I am all for supporting businesses, and of course there are factors over tax, logistics, marketing, staff salaries, support and currencies. But that price difference is a JOKE. Tokyo is one of the most expensive cities on earth, they can afford to pay a lot more for the GH1, so clearly Panasonic is happy with the domestic profit margins. How much extra are they spending on international costs to justify a 40-50% mark up?

pix2pixels said:
The issue of crippling the cameras in firmware is a pet hate of mine for a long time.:
1. Just have a look at side by side comparison of of Canon A650 and the G9 (sold at twice the price): same chip and lens in a different body... a firmware hack of the 650 put it way beyond the G9 capabilities.
2. The 5D was finally 'enabled' to shoot in manual mode after about one year of people screaming and kicking around the forums.
3. A firmware 'upgrade' by Panasonic disabled the use of third party batteries on GH1. Now Panasonic can sell a lot of batteries that cost 4x more that the generic crowd (which are still making a tidy profit selling those 'cheapo' batteries made with same cells as the branded one). Do they protect the bottom line with a firmware change?
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This is exactly my point.

themartist said:
I think many people who complain so bitterly about mud and codecs should really work on their shooting techniques, as personally... my eye catches a bad composition, poor lighting, bad editinmg or a cheesy concept way quicker than I would detect stray artefacts.
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This is exactly not my point.

Creativity and talent are another subject altogether and a LOT more important. But on this topic, all I want to get across is my desire for the industry to change their approach to 'cheap' consumer cameras and allow the camera firmware to be more customisable, codecs to be more robust and for Panasonic to deliver the full promise of what they set out to do.

I don't want to have to spend extra (on mark up) for a pro version, nice though it would be. I can't afford it, in the same way I can't afford an EX1 and Letus. That's why I have the GH1 in the first place.

Although this subject is interesting, I do find it distracts sometimes from the main job of going about making movies... but that doesn't mean to say the issue of 'mud' isn't worth debating. I just want to separate the talk about tools from the discussion about bad composition, poor lighting, workarounds, etc. The fact is mud DOES effect creativity in that it limits the type of shot you can produce to an acceptable standard. What if I want a whip pan? What if I need to shoot in a forest?

To accept that talent is king is very important, but it loses sight on improving the tools. Unfortunately I am a perfectionist who is never quite happy, and if I have a good shot ruined by mud it drives me crazy. Sorry but that's just the way I am :)
 
I would like BMW to put the same engineering and features in their 300 series as is in the 700 series. Had they done that, I know I could have made that turn that ended up flipping my 325i.
 
Kerplunk said:
I would like BMW to put the same engineering and features in their 300 series as is in the 700 series. Had they done that, I know I could have made that turn that ended up flipping my 325i.
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"1. Just have a look at side by side comparison of of Canon A650 and the G9 (sold at twice the price): same chip and lens in a different body... a firmware hack of the 650 put it way beyond the G9 capabilities."

It's not the same as the BMW example and neither is mud. Mud is like buying a BMW 700 series, top of the range and finding it is 'great' but unexpectedly misfires sometimes.
 
commanderspike said:
The Japanese domestic GH1 body is made in Japan and retails in Japan for 40% less than the PAL or USA versions which are made in China. UK RRP for the Chinese made GH1 is £1299 and in Japan the kit sells for £700.

I am all for supporting businesses, and of course there are factors over tax, logistics, marketing, staff salaries, support and currencies. But that price difference is a JOKE. Tokyo is one of the most expensive cities on earth, they can afford to pay a lot more for the GH1, so clearly Panasonic is happy with the domestic profit margins. How much extra are they spending on international costs to justify a 40-50% mark up?



This is exactly my point.



This is exactly not my point.

Creativity and talent are another subject altogether and a LOT more important. But on this topic, all I want to get across is my desire for the industry to change their approach to 'cheap' consumer cameras and allow the camera firmware to be more customisable, codecs to be more robust and for Panasonic to deliver the full promise of what they set out to do.

I don't want to have to spend extra (on mark up) for a pro version, nice though it would be. I can't afford it, in the same way I can't afford an EX1 and Letus. That's why I have the GH1 in the first place.

Although this subject is interesting, I do find it distracts sometimes from the main job of going about making movies... but that doesn't mean to say the issue of 'mud' isn't worth debating. I just want to separate the talk about tools from the discussion about bad composition, poor lighting, workarounds, etc. The fact is mud DOES effect creativity in that it limits the type of shot you can produce to an acceptable standard. What if I want a whip pan? What if I need to shoot in a forest?

To accept that talent is king is very important, but it loses sight on improving the tools. Unfortunately I am a perfectionist who is never quite happy, and if I have a good shot ruined by mud it drives me crazy. Sorry but that's just the way I am :)
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In my opinion, if you can only afford to spend $1500 on a camera, you are not in a position to be a perfectionist. You are in a position to be an eager and enthusiastic learner who is grateful that you have now access to the amazing creative possibilities that a $1500 camera can offer.

I produce and direct TV commercials, mostly animated but there are now going to be far more live action commercials. Our studio has a sony V1 and an A1, with lighting and a greenscreen setup. All of this equipment does not offer half of the excitement I get from the Gh1... but you wont hear me complaining about the technology. I'm too grateful that I can use this wonderful technology to make a good living doing exactly what I want to do. And I'm too busy learning and learning all of the things that I am aware I am so ignorant of. There is SO much to learn. I cant wait to show off my weekly progress.

The creativity vs technology distinction you are trying to make is irrelevant, as its a hypothetical obsession that focusses on things you can only change with a higher budget. If you are a pro who isn't making enough money to afford a better camera, frankly... you don't deserve one. If you are an enthusiastic hobbyist, this camera is more than enough for you.

There are fundamentals other than whip pans you should be focussing on. Its like an art student complaining at the quality of his oil paints and old brushes. With all of the phenomenal work that is being produced, its just ungrateful carrying on and on about the shortcomings of this ultra affordable little beauty. I love my GH1.
 
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themartist said:
In my opinion, if you can only afford to spend $1500 on a camera, you are not in a position to be a perfectionist. You are in a position to be an eager and enthusiastic learner who is grateful that you have now access to the amazing creative possibilities that a $1500 camera can offer.

I produce and direct TV commercials, mostly animated but there are now going to be far more live action commercials. Our studio has a sony V1 and an A1, with lighting and a greenscreen setup. All of this equipment does not offer half of the excitement I get from the Gh1... but you wont hear me complaining about the technology. I'm too grateful that I can use this wonderful technology to make a good living doing exactly what I want to do. And I'm too busy learning and learning all of the things that I am aware I am so ignorant of. There is SO much to learn. I cant wait to show off my weekly progress.

The creativity vs technology distinction you are trying to make is irrelevant, as its a hypothetical obsession that focusses on things you can only change with a higher budget. If you are a pro who isn't making enough money to afford a better camera, frankly... you don't deserve one. If you are an enthusiastic hobbyist, this camera is more than enough for you.

There are fundamentals other than whip pans you should be focussing on. Its like an art student complaining at the quality of his oil paints and old brushes. With all of the phenomenal work that is being produced, its just ungrateful carrying on and on about the shortcomings of this ultra affordable little beauty. I love my GH1.
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thumbs up.
 
Originally Posted by themartist
In my opinion, if you can only afford to spend $1500 on a camera, you are not in a position to be a perfectionist. You are in a position to be an eager and enthusiastic learner who is grateful that you have now access to the amazing creative possibilities that a $1500 camera can offer.

I produce and direct TV commercials, mostly animated but there are now going to be far more live action commercials. Our studio has a sony V1 and an A1, with lighting and a greenscreen setup. All of this equipment does not offer half of the excitement I get from the Gh1... but you wont hear me complaining about the technology. I'm too grateful that I can use this wonderful technology to make a good living doing exactly what I want to do. And I'm too busy learning and learning all of the things that I am aware I am so ignorant of. There is SO much to learn. I cant wait to show off my weekly progress.

The creativity vs technology distinction you are trying to make is irrelevant, as its a hypothetical obsession that focusses on things you can only change with a higher budget. If you are a pro who isn't making enough money to afford a better camera, frankly... you don't deserve one. If you are an enthusiastic hobbyist, this camera is more than enough for you.

There are fundamentals other than whip pans you should be focussing on. Its like an art student complaining at the quality of his oil paints and old brushes. With all of the phenomenal work that is being produced, its just ungrateful carrying on and on about the shortcomings of this ultra affordable little beauty. I love my GH1.
Click to expand...

Two thumbs up! Panasonic has its own timetable for this cameras and it delivered what they were able to at this moment. And we should thank them once again. Once they are able to develop the technology further they will. At the moment what we have is what we have, a wonderful little camera that is able to produce beautiful results for those that have the skills and creativity. Once again, thank you Panasonic and keep working along to a great future and further camera breakthroughs.
 
date/time of G1/GH1 firmwares

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themartist said:
... If you are a pro who isn't making enough money to afford a better camera, frankly... you don't deserve one. ...
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That was uncalled for, Marie Antoinette. You've not really that insensitive to other people's economic circumstances, are you?

Even "pros" are sometimes unemployed (or underemployed) and hard-pressed to justify a $1,500 purchase without careful consideration.

Perhaps you've been hiding in an undisclosed location for more than a year and haven't heard about the on-going worldwide economic situation?

To bring it closer to home, here in Portland, Oregon the unemployment rate is well over 12%, and if I had to guess I'd say the unemployment rate for video professionals here -- which even in good times isn't very low -- is now probably well over 50%.

But even employed people can have lots of good reasons for not having $1,500 available to splash around -- regular expenses, illness, existing debts, and so forth.

Anyway, Marie, thanks for writing, and mind your neck!

Thumbs down.

:-)
 
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo said:
That was uncalled for, Marie Antoinette. You've not really that insensitive to other people's economic situations, are you?

Even "pros" are sometimes unemployed (or underemployed) and hard-pressed to justify a $1,500 purchase without careful consideration.

Perhaps you've been hiding in an undisclosed location for more than a year and haven't heard about the on-going worldwide economic situation?

To bring it closer to home, here in Portland, Oregon the unemployment rate is well over 12%, and if I had to guess I'd say the unemployment rate for video professionals here -- which even in good times isn't very low -- is now probably well over 50%.

But even employed people can have lots of good reasons for not having $1,500 available to splash around -- regular expenses, illness, existing debts, and so forth.

Anyway, Marie, thanks for writing, and mind your neck!

Thumbs down.

:-)
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You don't read very well do you. I was saying that if you cant afford MORE than a $1500 camera, don't complain about this cameras functions... for $1500 its a beast. And if you are having such a tough time financially, best not to be spending money on extra equipment. The term "deserve" was probably not what I was intending to use, and should have been "warrant". Before your next long tirade in extended metaphors, read the context.
 
Even "pros" are sometimes unemployed (or underemployed) and hard-pressed to justify a $1,500 purchase without careful consideration.
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Again, the GH1 is a consumer camera acting like a pro camera with limitations. Any real pro this days should count his/her blessings for more than capable cinema video equipment for pro work costing $1500. Not so long ago you had to spend many times that to buy a film camera then spend on film and developing and whatnot. If you wanted a pro video camera you had to spend $20 grand for a Betacam or sometime later a few thousand dollars for a DV camera with a lot less quality. themartist is 100% correct in his statements. A real pro should make the $1500 investment back in a few weeks no matter what the economic situation out there. If he can't then he shouldn't be investing money on this kind of equipment.
 
No more personal bickering or flaming or baiting.

I'm not gonna ask again. Thread goes away temporarily or for good next time depending on severity of the tone of the comments.

Sick of it.
 
Peter J. DeCrescenzo said:
That was uncalled for, Marie Antoinette. You've not really that insensitive to other people's economic circumstances, are you?

Even "pros" are sometimes unemployed (or underemployed) and hard-pressed to justify a $1,500 purchase without careful consideration.

Perhaps you've been hiding in an undisclosed location for more than a year and haven't heard about the on-going worldwide economic situation?

To bring it closer to home, here in Portland, Oregon the unemployment rate is well over 12%, and if I had to guess I'd say the unemployment rate for video professionals here -- which even in good times isn't very low -- is now probably well over 50%.

But even employed people can have lots of good reasons for not having $1,500 available to splash around -- regular expenses, illness, existing debts, and so forth.

Anyway, Marie, thanks for writing, and mind your neck!

Thumbs down.

:-)
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Two thumbs up. I don't see why Marie Antoinette had to bring money and blatant snobbery into the discussion and in my opinion, which hopefully I am allowed to express without falling into the 'bickering' category, because I don't think we are, I'd just like to say that Marie Antoinette doesn't seem to have any idea of what I was actually trying to say in my earlier posts at all and should have more respect for enthusiasts / hobbyists.

I love my GH1 as well but it isn't immune to improvement and some frustrated criticism when the codec pukes up in the middle of a music video shoot. Don't deserve to be a perfectionist unless I can afford better equipment? WTF is that about?

Part of the most enjoyable thing in filmmaking is finding ingenious work arounds and customising your tools, but unfortunately with the codec issue that isn't possible. I am not a Panasonic employee, I have no loyalty to a brand. I am impressed with them but if Canon did a better camera I'd be chucking the GH1 on eBay and moving over, it's as simple as that.

I am a lot more interested in the technical discussion of the firmware and how the GH1 can be improved. When I was tired of people screaming about fixed pattern noise and banding, I discussed work arounds and hopefully didn't come across as a snob. I didn't begin telling people to forget that it's a problem and to go and spend $8000 on lights instead.

I didn't shout "Let them eat cake!!" either.
 
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Friends and foes thank you very much... I'm not going down this road. Here I bid farewell to this thread... off to new topics that are not about measuring the size of each others sensors. This forum is a great source of knowledge. use it.
 
themartist said:
Friends and foes thank you very much... I'm not going down this road. Here I bid farewell to this thread... off to new topics that are not about measuring the size of each others sensors. This forum is a great source of knowledge. use it.
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This forum is a great source of knowledge, yes. Try contributing to it next time :dankk2:
 
Oi, looks like I missed a bunch. Politics, economics and flipping BMWs. Cool. Any more word on the firmware update? Is it worth doing or will I lose the use of third party lens wipes?
 
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