Firmware Update for the AF100

Just curious, but how often are people changing the ISO with the AF100? I kinda like having just 1 ISO per scene, and just lighting or iris to control exposure.

I haven't used it in a run-and-gun situation yet, just narratively. Even in doc situations though, on an HDX900 or whatever, you still only have access to 3 gain settings. Between a 2-stop ND wheel and 3 1/3 stop increments for gain, how much more control is necessary?
 
I can only speak from my experience. I was on a set with 2 other cameras shooting at the same time and I was the B and C camera mostly. Lighting was generally setup for the A camera, so I didn't have control of that. The difference in ND values to me were quite a bit, and I like to try and use as little gain as possible ever when shooting. So, I do not want to use a stronger ND with a higher gain if I have than set. Therefore, I tune the gain setting based on the closest ND to keep the gain down. I don't use the iris because by doing so, it changes my DoF and that I want to keep exactly how I have it set.
 
Hi everyone,

I have gone through this entire thread and frankly it is as Barry has said, there is no way to add features, change the menu structure or make the camera into something other than what it is. There are any number of things that you all have voice your opinions on and stated that you buy the other guys camera if we don't allow for upgrades on this camera. I am sorry that we will be losing you as a customer but I hope that you have the ability to make use of and pay for your AF100 before you depart.

See where there is opportunity to upgrade is where the manufacturer planned during the R & D stage of development that there is a planned path to get to a well buried eProm or FPGA. So like our HPX300 that got the Flashband Compensation, that was under development but not ready at the time of delivery, they had made a path. Like the HVX200s frame rate hack, well during the initial design phase they were going to put it out with all the frame rates, but then realized how much time the testing was going to take and so they reduced the number to 12. Some clever person found a way to enable them. Point is, the path was already there. The AF100 does not have a path to change menu items or add menu items, those things are hard programmed into non-volatile chips, and there is no way to send that chip a new message to read differently. I can't tell the camera to move the ISO choices to the back thumb wheel because there is no path to make that happen. So much of the camera is hard programming.

That said, I am reading the discussion and making notes for future cameras. I am asking the factory to see if they can look at designing a camera that has a bit of an open door. Doesn't mean that they will do it, because there is something to be said for making the design bullet-proof. There is something to be said for all the cameras acting the same way.

Best regards,

Jan
 
Jan-
Is the HPX250 (due out late this year) too far into the development stage to incorporate some of the open door paths that you suggested? Panasonic seems to be more responsive to user suggestions than other other manufacturers and I was wondering whether it would be too late for us to put together a wish list?
 
Hi,

Yes it is too late. This change has to be in the path from the very initial design. However much of what is in the HPX250/AC160/AC130 are ideas that have been culled from this group.


Best,

Jan
 
Thanks Jan. I heard through the grapevine that there are many questions being asked recently for improvements and features for the next round of cameras. I'm very excited as I feel the AF100 has been a great investment for me, as was the HVX200, to be able to make a living with equipment that actually works.

Jan_Crittenden said:
Hi,

Yes it is too late. This change has to be in the path from the very initial design. However much of what is in the HPX250/AC160/AC130 are ideas that have been culled from this group.


Best,

Jan
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Thank you Jan for making the situation clear. It's this kind of up-front honesty and clarity in communication that will keep me coming back.
 
Jan,
Panasonic did a fabulous job with the AG-AF100. I used the HDX900 for several years. The AF100 can look just as dramatic with a great lens and the right settings. Bravo!
DC in NC
 
Thanks for the clarification Jan. There's a very real difference between it being physically not possible the way the camera is designed versus some of the other explanations put forth in this thread and others, in particular that it's a matter of policy, not how the industry/world works or should work, a cost issue, etc.. Your explanation articulates why it's not reasonable in a clear and fair way. As I've said many times before, having you here to listen and communicate is a great value add.
 
Paul F said:
Thank you Jan for making the situation clear. It's this kind of up-front honesty and clarity in communication that will keep me coming back.
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The truth is that i hear jan saying: this is the way we made it, this is the way its gonna stay????
(thanks for removing my comment Barry)
 
Thanks for being rude in your post. We're not fans of rudeness.

Jan said "the camera does not have the capability to add what you're asking for through firmware updates." That is the way it is. We have made the case that they should design future products so that such upgrade paths are possible, because that's what today's customer is becoming accustomed to.
 
i hope this comes up at the top of that list, jan
the highlight clipping. having a limiter so highlights desturate white when they over expose :)
im excited about the 250 although i doubt ill be getting that anytime soon.
 
Kenny_G said:
The truth is that i hear jan saying: this is the way we made it, this is the way its gonna stay????
(thanks for removing my comment Barry)
Click to expand...

That isn't what I said. I said that the AF100 was designed a certain way; it cannot change because of design decisions that were made 2+years ago. You can't change things that there is no path to. That is much different in tone that what you are saying. What you are saying is rather rude, implying that I was rude. I gave an explanation as to what it couldn't change, and your statement makes it sound like it won't change because we don't want to change it.

Moving forward and I mean future cameras not this one, I don't know how open the engineers will be on the camera design, but it is under study. The one thing that is the most difficult is controlling the path to key operational changes. This is a very dangerous path to leave open for anyone to walk though because with the right amount of hacking it could render the camera to be totally dysfunctional.

Best regards,

Jan
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
...... The one thing that is the most difficult is controlling the path to key operational changes. This is a very dangerous path to leave open for anyone to walk though because with the right amount of hacking it could render the camera to be totally dysfunctional.

Best regards,

Jan
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Not your problem Jan. I'd void the warranty on any hacked product. But at the same time, as the consumer, I welcome an open design. Let us hack. Let us 'improve' it (or screw it up). There are a few thousand decision points for a product development. A open product that costs too much is of no value. So if a product needs to keep things in hardware to make it affordable, then that's the way it is.
 
Hey Jan,

thank you for being involved in this thread. Sorry if I missed a previous thread, but I understand that there are certain things that can and cannot be done with firmware upgrades due to the nature of the beast. The suggestion of changing the highlight clipping to de-saturate as it goes to pure white, is this something that is in the realm of possibility or not?

What exactly constitutes issues that can be resolved through an update. I thought the green issue of the LCD was fixed very well and was happy to see it addressed so quickly. I wonder what else Panasonic is capable of doing to improve the camera within the boundaries of what's doable through firmware updates.
 
PaPa said:
Hey Jan,

thank you for being involved in this thread. Sorry if I missed a previous thread, but I understand that there are certain things that can and cannot be done with firmware upgrades due to the nature of the beast. The suggestion of changing the highlight clipping to de-saturate as it goes to pure white, is this something that is in the realm of possibility or not?

What exactly constitutes issues that can be resolved through an update. I thought the green issue of the LCD was fixed very well and was happy to see it addressed so quickly. I wonder what else Panasonic is capable of doing to improve the camera within the boundaries of what's doable through firmware updates.
Click to expand...

What I don't understand is why we can't look at someone to come up with a post solution for the highlight clipping to at least solve the problem for now. Anything that would be done in camera would be in the digital domain anyways. Why couldn't we create a filter that examines the values of the pixels in question, with thresholds and such, and does the limiting after the fact? Yes, I do understand the video is 8-bit at this point, but I've seen some FANTASTIC work some have done to fix otherwise harsh blowouts and I don't see why with enough testing, a simple solution could be made.

Now don't get me wrong, obviously it would be easier in camera, but given that hasn't happened, and that it also plagues other cameras, someone should really jump on this opportunity.
 
I've done some post FX work on footage and have minimized the effects, so it's not a huge issue for me, but it does increase the rendering time and just the trust on set of knowing that I can do this without it looking a certain way would give a lot more confidence.
 
Paul F said:
Let us hack.
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Mind you, hacking a $480 GH1 body is not the same as hacking a $4800 AF100 body. End user stands to lose more and the manufacturer runs much greater risk of needing to deal with unsuccessfully hacked and bricked camcorders. Let's be real. This is not an open source Asterisk PBX.
 
My suggestion of course is for future cameras like the 250
I handle this isue on my af100 by lowering saturation and controling exposure. Sometimes it cant be helped
 
Hacking any electronic device could cause damage. What if you shut off the heat monitoring code? What if you upped a bias voltage on something? Now, let's say you break your camera this way. Now let's say you put the old firmware back on and then ship it to Panasonic saying "It just stopped working." What if you ran someone elses code and you didn't know this is what happened, so you while you put the firmware back on, you send it back to Panasonic thinking that it was a manufacturing problem or something. These are the types of situations that companies try to avoid because they want to limit their possible costs in the future for things that are not their fault that they have a hard time detecting.
 
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