firewire recording device

K

Kevino

New member
Hi list,

Wondering if anyone has used a firewire recording device attached to the camera as a backup to regular tape recording.

I'd welcome any feedback and I would like to incorporate direct recording to a drive to my workflow which is mainly event videography.)

Many thanks and warm regards,


Kevin
 
Re: firewire recording device

Quickstream's had a lot of complaints. Personally I'd vote to skip it and go for either the Firestore FS-4 or the nNovia QuickCapture.

I'm going to be using DV Rack as a direct-to-disk recording device until the FS-4 comes out and I can check it out... granted DV Rack requires a laptop computer, but you also get a waveform, vectorscope and production monitor with it, and the total cost ($699 for laptop, $399 for DV Rack) is about the same as a Firestore FS-4 Pro...
 
Re: firewire recording device

Although not through firewire, I've done camera without tape direct to DVD burn that records for 2 hours. It's not a problem. I run the image and sound back out of the DVD burner into a monitor to make sure all is recording.
 
Re: firewire recording device

I've been investigating various firewire devices and this is what I've found;

As far as hard disk goes the nNovia appears to be the leader. The advantage of the hard disk is its mobility, either shoulder slung or camera mounted. An 80Gb is @ 1100.00 from EVS and will record @ 6 hrs of video.

DV Rack is awsome lots of great tools, but its really only a tripod solution. I guess you could stick the laptop in a back pack if your on a stabilizer, but that sounds like a challenge. Cost here is greatly variable based on the laptop.

Also I looked into building a slimline computer, fairly price effective and can have hotswappable hard drives so you could pop one out and another in and keep on recording the price range is @ 1500.00 plus your labor to put it all together. But that comes with the challenge of how to power.

Also I haven't heard anyone talking about actual production work with DV rack yet, but one question I have is the cooling fans for the computer, are they causing any problems for your audio?

Hope this helps

Gopher
 
Re: firewire recording device

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=Links;num=1095130978;start=0#2 date=09/14/04 at 05:57:21]
I'm going to be using DV Rack as a direct-to-disk recording device until the FS-4 comes out and I can check it out... granted DV Rack requires a laptop computer, but you also get a waveform, vectorscope and production monitor with it, and the total cost ($699 for laptop, $399 for DV Rack) is about the same as a Firestore FS-4 Pro...[/quote]

This is damn cool!! Vectorscope? waveform? That is awesome!!

The only problem is if you are doing hand held-work. It can be a pain in the ass. You don't want long wires connecting to your laptop.

Are there any other alternative vectorscope and waveform viewers that you can plug on top of your camera? A small one, maybe similar to an LCD screen?

All the best

Fidel.
 
Re: firewire recording device

For indoor shoots, since last week I have been recording directly to my Pioneer 520 DVD recorder (with 80 GB harddisk) through the firewire. It can record upto 17 hours of Best quality video.

Great asset to work with, for indoor, studio or other controlled environment shoots. As Pioneer recorders are presetnly the only ones providing both DV in and out facility, I later shift the shoot to my comuter through the firewire. For its size it is very slim and ...I must say handy.
 
Re: firewire recording device

[quote author=ddh link=board=Links;num=1095130978;start=0#3 date=09/14/04 at 07:02:23]Although not through firewire, I've done camera without tape direct to DVD burn that records for 2 hours. It's not a problem. I run the image and sound back out of the DVD burner into a monitor to make sure all is recording. [/quote]

Do you mean you run video and sound out into a DVD recorder?

I’d have to think that would be problematic at best, not the least of which being the usability of the data on the DVD (MPEG-2 that you’d have to rip), and the quality of the picture if you’re running it through composite or even S-Video.
 
Re: firewire recording device

I think the ultimate firewire recording device is going to be a micro-laptop running DV Rack. I haven't been this pleased with a software purchase since I got Vegas4+DVD. I just wish it was more portable (15" screen Laptop isn't all that small)... I know Sony was making some small laptops, heck I'd like to see a Palm-sized device if it could run XP (and thus run DV Rack).
 
Re: firewire recording device

Barry, you're convincing me to plug in! Now, how long would it take to pay for itself in tapes not having to be purchased . . . ?
 
Re: firewire recording device

..im still thinking that someone has GOT to make a bettery operated WIFI type device which simply transmits DV firewire signals wirelessly to a wireless reciever .. small and camera mountable would be an obvious plus. then the reciever could just plug into a laptop via pmcia like any other wireless card, or into a desktop via pci or an external firewire adaptor.

it cant be a big deal.. DV is under 4 mg per sec. for transfer.

imagine recording Direct To Disk with no wires.. and running DV rack or your NLE on your laptop or desktop.. while your camera is handheld, or on a dolly, or stabilizer device or crane or any other possibility of wireless digital DV transmission. .. of course it could encrypt it so nobody else can access your stream.
 
Re: firewire recording device

Well, at $5.65 per tape, you'd recover the $1100 cost in about ... er... um... carry the one... about 200 tapes.

But I wouldn't use it that way.  I still roll tape, 'cause you *never know*... plus it's nice to have it as a backup.  The thing is, it's not just a DDR, it's also a monitor (with dark zebras!) with switchable 4:3 and 16:9 that you can zoom in on to *really* set critical focus, plus it's a waveform and vectorscope, and the waveform monitor really helps you get the most dynamic range from the camera, and it's also an audio quality monitor, and the DDR portion even includes pre-roll so it'll start recording even before you do.  Plus it monitors the incoming video signal to tell you when you have clipping or mushed blacks or "plosives" in your audio, etc... and you can review instantly in the field and see if it's "good enough" or if you need to re-take.  And you can match an existing clip against what the camera's currently shooting, so you can make sure your footage will intercut.

It really can make sure you get your footage RIGHT, but it also will slow down your shooting, because there are so many things you can check and tweak and adjust.  In some ways it's not for run 'n' gun, especially if you have a conventional laptop tethered to it, but... man, if I could find a small 7" screen laptop that I could bolt to the hot shoe like the Quickstream... that'd be awesome!  Maybe the next generation of this:
http://www.pdabuyersguide.com/notebooks/sony_vaio_U50.htm
Those have screens with just a bit too low resolution (DV Rack really likes 1024x768 ) and the processor's a bit slow, but maybe the next generation will be good enough...
 
Re: firewire recording device

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Links;num=1095130978;start=0#8 date=09/22/04 at 06:09:58]

Do you mean you run video and sound out into a DVD recorder?

I’d have to think that would be problematic at best, not the least of which being the usability of the data on the DVD (MPEG-2 that you’d have to rip), and the quality of the picture if you’re running it through composite or even S-Video.
[/quote]

I assumed it was meant that the DV-to-DVD was as..well...raw DV/AVI, just like if you were capturing it.

Yes? No?

Dan
 
Re: firewire recording device

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=Links;num=1095130978;start=0#12 date=09/22/04 at 11:39:17]Well, at $5.65 per tape, you'd recover the $1100 cost in about ... er... um... carry the one... about 200 tapes.

But I wouldn't use it that way.  I still roll tape, 'cause you *never know*... plus it's nice to have it as a backup.  The thing is, it's not just a DDR, it's also a monitor (with dark zebras!) with switchable 4:3 and 16:9 that you can zoom in on to *really* set critical focus, plus it's a waveform and vectorscope, and the waveform monitor really helps you get the most dynamic range from the camera, and it's also an audio quality monitor, and the DDR portion even includes pre-roll so it'll start recording even before you do.  Plus it monitors the incoming video signal to tell you when you have clipping or mushed blacks or "plosives" in your audio, etc... and you can review instantly in the field and see if it's "good enough" or if you need to re-take.  And you can match an existing clip against what the camera's currently shooting, so you can make sure your footage will intercut.

It really can make sure you get your footage RIGHT, but it also will slow down your shooting, because there are so many things you can check and tweak and adjust.  In some ways it's not for run 'n' gun, especially if you have a conventional laptop tethered to it, but... man, if I could find a small 7" screen laptop that I could bolt to the hot shoe like the Quickstream... that'd be awesome!  Maybe the next generation of this:
http://www.pdabuyersguide.com/notebooks/sony_vaio_U50.htm
Those have screens with just a bit too low resolution (DV Rack really likes 1024x768) and the processor's a bit slow, but maybe the next generation will be good enough...[/quote]

Yeah, I downloaded the demo and thought it was pretty sweet. But you wouldn't have to run a new tape every time, and that would be a cost savings (not that I was even being totally serious above . . . ;)).

I'm probably going to get a laptop with some horsepower so I can use it as a portable editing machine as well.
 
Re: firewire recording device

Any sign of a DV Rack for Mac or would Virtual PC have enough oomph to run it.

Many thanks and warm regards,

Kevin
 
Re: firewire recording device

Nope. No plans for the Mac, and they say specifically that Mac emulators can't run it, something to do with their heavy reliance on DirectShow or some other Windows service that Mac emulators can't emulate adequately.
 
Re: firewire recording device

the big question, does dv rack have a way of dealing with a panasonic anamorphic lens?

it has just one place to deal with pixel width but that is for screen shots...

matthew
 
Re: firewire recording device

They posted an update available for download. It allows you to set the field monitor aspect ratio.

Also, if you use a laptop that has a widescreen monitor, you can switch to full screen field monitor view (Alt+Enter), and you will see the image stretched to the correct proportions.

Any capture will have to be stretched in post, though. I haven't figured out a way to do it in bulk in Vegas, so I have to change the pixel aspect ratio for each individual clip, but it's not as much pain as I thought it would be.

If anyone knows how to do it as a batch, or write a script to use with Vegas, let me know.
 
Re: firewire recording device

The way they implemented the aspect ratio is a little odd -- they actually let you dial in the exact aspect ratio you want. If you want 1.456:1, you can do it.

I don't know why they did that, I'd much prefer a simple 4:3/16:9 toggle, but that's what they did. So for those who want to shoot anamorphic+squeeze, well, DV Rack'll let you set the monitor to 2.37:1 so I guess you could actually do it.

DV Rack also has a letterbox option on its monitor, so instead of trying to tape off your camera's viewfinder you can just pop the letterbox overlay on/off, which is kind of nice.

And with the monitor able to zoom in, you can set critical focus easier and more precisely with DV Rack than you could with just about any other monitoring software.

Man, if I keep preaching like this, I'll have to buy me some Serious Magic stock! ;D
 
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