firestore unsafe to use?

J

jynxprod

Member
I run a production company and we are about to order our first hpx500. Love the camera but not sure about those cards... We only shoot and edit short format docs for european tv. I have no need to watch, delete, or edit footage in the field. So the firestore seems the most logical solution for our needs. A perfect switch from beta /digibeta workflow. Especially since pana offers no more bundles and now sells the camera head by itself very cheaply. My main shooter however has reservations about firestores reliability vs p2 cards. He also doesnt like the fact that it would make the camera heavier and slightly unbalanced.
What are your thoughts- is firestore a reliable option for broadcast tv shoots?

Thanks for any input.
Johannes Wiebus
www.jynxproductions.com
 
seems some have had great success with it while others hate it. i have had mixed results. mostly good but once it ate a ton of footage and i had to reshoot. i ws in quicktime mode and a bunch of the files came out corrupt and unusble. i like the convenience of being able to record a whole ton of stuff without thinking about offloading, etc. however, the downside is too much for me. non-locking interface cable that pulls out easily, another battery to charge, another big clunky device hanging from the camera, you can't play back via the component out, only the built in lcd. no instant slow mo playback. blah blah blah.

p2 is for the most part very solid. yes there have been reported errors but tape has it's faults too for that matter. if you get a p2 store, offloading is very simple. even dumping to a laptop is easy and cheap.
 
Jynx

Just from my experience with firestore. Ive used them number of times in the past with the HPX and no issues so I bought my own. Ive found them pretty straight forward and I am yet to have an issue.

As far as the weight balance goes, the HPX has two positions you can mount, one forward and one back of the top handle. Using a flixible adapter like a NOGA arm you could get it balanced up perfectly and the weight isnt that much.

What cheezweezl refers to with the cable I think is more relevant to the HVX which only has a 4 pin firewire connecter - whereas the HPX uses the more robust 6 pin.
 
ncje said:
What cheezweezl refers to with the cable I think is more relevant to the HVX which only has a 4 pin firewire connecter - whereas the HPX uses the more robust 6 pin.
Click to expand...

sure 6 pin is sturdier but still pulls out just as fast if the cable gets yanked. nothing holding it in.
 
mounting

mounting

i can see the cable being a potential issue.
But if it is manageable as you suggest, how exactly do you deal with mounting the firestore if you have both the firestore and a wireless receiver? Where do you put what?

Thanks for your guys' input, i really appreciate it!
johannes
 
jynx.. just so happens I have a wireless reciever. Im using an IDX setup, batteries etc. I swapped out the rear AB mount for IDX and then attached an extra plate which holds the reciever. My FS is on a ballmount.

My reciever is a Sony WRR 861.
 
cheezweezl said:
sure 6 pin is sturdier but still pulls out just as fast if the cable gets yanked. nothing holding it in.
Click to expand...

Well it does hold in place much better than a four. But really if a cable gets YANKED it usually pops out regardless(or just wrenches the cam to the ground) - the difference is the four pins need not much more than a knock sometimes.
 
You should be using strain relief on your cables anyway. With an HVX I'd recommend wrapping the cable through the camera's handle or running it through the handstrap's velcro before attaching it. Don't let the cable connector bear any potential strain at all and you'll greatly reduce any chance of a cable being an issue.

To the original poster -- P2 cards are far more reliable, quiet, error-free, sturdy, etc. than any spinning hard disk is going to be. I predict that as capacities grow, the market for hard disk recorders is going to shrink. But the FireStore has matured nicely and is a reasonably robust product now, far better than it was when first introduced. So, choose your preference, they're both solid choices now.
 
Barry_Green said:
P2 cards are far more reliable, quiet, error-free, sturdy, etc. than any spinning hard disk is going to be. I predict that as capacities grow, the market for hard disk recorders is going to shrink.
Click to expand...

I'm willing to bet SSD prices are going to drop far faster and further than P2 card prices. I'm looking forward to dropping a 512GB SSD into our firestore. Without spinning media, the cons to the FS are fairly few.

If Focus Enhancements were smart, they would roll out a FS with removeable SSD or CF slots.
 
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BlueWorld,
After Barry's post about multiple P2 manufacturers, I'm not so sure anymore. I mean competition will help the P2 market somewhat. But look how far we've come in a year. 8GB to 32GB! Quite a transition in price and in memory capability.
 
It's a matter of economies of scale. How many potential p2 owners are there in the world compared to hard drive users and mobile computing platforms?
 
touché my friend touché

I know there's one guy who has figured out how to increase the FS-100's HD. But you can't just slap a new, bigger, better HD into the thing right?
 
The FS-4 is just replace and go. I don't know if the FS-100 is different, but if it doesn't ship with any software disks, it would seem that nothing but data is being stored on the drive.
 
ahhhh... is the FS-4 HVX200 compatible... i think the drive isn't as easy as that for the FS-100... we need siniarch to come talk to us about it! He's the master of the FS mod!
 
Since it's a FAT32 file system, it's pretty trivial to clone anything on the drive to a replacement. I'll know soon enough.
 
BlueWorld said:
I'm willing to bet SSD prices are going to drop far faster and further than P2 card prices.
Click to expand...
SSD, yes. SxS, no, so let's not let the readers get confused, but computer solid state drives, yes they'll have the economies of scale driving their prices down.

I'm looking forward to dropping a 512GB SSD into our firestore. Without spinning media, the cons to the FS are fairly few.
Click to expand...
Well, that's a matter of opinion, of course. Size, firewire cable, metadata, not being able to play back clips in HD, not being able to dub to DV tape, not being able to view or sort clips by thumbnail, no text memo subclipping... there are lots of advantages that P2 has that an external recorder won't have.

But yes, my interest in something like the FS-100 goes up significantly if it's solid state instead of a spinning/noisy hard disk!

If Focus Enhancements were smart, they would roll out a FS with removeable SSD or CF slots.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I'd advise them to do as well.
 
jynxpro: You said that you make documentaries... in my experience even the extra step of resetting timecode is a hassle when I'm working fast - maybe your work isn't like that, and you have more prep time than I often do, but it's important to consider the extra step(s) involved in setting up and powering any external device - how many times have you forgotten to turn off a wireless receiver? I've lost count - EverReady loves me.

P2 cards are just there waiting patiently to go to work - while it's true that you usually need to re-format them in the camera (I have Macs), that is really the only extra step involved.
 
Mac,
youre right - and my work is absolutely like that. My editor often wants to strangle me because we didn't have time to record tone or bars.
So after talking on this forum, and to some shooters with P2 experience, I'm pretty convinced P2 are the way to go.
Especially when shooting in native, 6 x 16 GB cards should be enough for me - and that's still within budget.
Thanks for your input!
 
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