Final Countdown to a 35mm World

A

ANTshooter

Active member
I'm looking into finally placing my order in for an adapter, and no offense to Dennis but my decision comes down the Letus Extreme vs. the SGpro. (It sucks that the Blade is so close, yet so far....)

The prices are significantly different, although because of free shipping, the Letus would be at a pretty good advantage. But I need it to arrive before the SECOND week of July and I hear Letus is having a few delays on some shipping. But let's not talk about price. It comes down to this, I get the Letus Extreme Starter Bundle + Indifocus FF or the SGPro Bundle with flip, rods, and their own FF.

I still think the SGPro has the best bokeh, it seems to have the better overall look that I like, and I've looked at plenty of examples from all four. But yes I know, LEX, less light loss, and still looks beautiful.

I like both. I can only buy one. I like the Extreme, but because of its design, I've read here that you can only stop down as far as f5.6 before you start seeing grain. True? THAT is the dealbreaker for me, because I don't want to be forced to use a shallow DOF in all of my shots. (Philip Bloom's LEX video is doing a pretty good job at convincing me otherwise though.)

So I'm calling all the hardcore followers of each brand to please support their adapter of choice, your words of advice will help me to decide ONCE AND FOR ALL, which adapter I'll be ordering. Btw, which one would you say is more solidly built and easier to maintain?
 
You are in the same boat as me. I love cinevate as a company much more then either Letus or Sg, But I love the look of the SG more then anything else, but I love the lightloss of the Letus. So what is the answer? I am not sure either. I don't have the money right now for an adapter so Im gonna wait for the blade and see what thats like. Because with their new GG if they can get the same looking image as the LEX with .5 stop of light and be able to stop down passed 5.6, then that might be the route I go.

Sorry I can't make your life easier.
 
It comes down to priorities. Light Loss vs Bokeh. Also, consider sharpness as well. I found my LEX to be sharper than my old SG Rev 3. But that's before the flip optics. Also, one thing to re-consider on the Brevis is the X/Y adjustment. That is becoming a bigger deal for me especially when I need even fall off or max wide angle.

Overall, I liked my SG's image the best but the amount of light loss put me into a different league of lighting gear. Once you're close to a stop of light loss your lighting needs become a significantly bigger production at which point why not just rent a better camera (varicam/PS tech) and save on the the lighting. It balances out.

To keep lighting to a guerilla size package, I find 1/2 a stop to be my threshhold.
 
Consider also that the Brevis has interchangeable diffusers for different looks. I'm sure Cinevate is going to design even more, Also, I hear that their Flip Module actually improves the image.
 
You might be missing out with the brevis man. Three cinefuse elements, barely any light loss. I shot a night scene this past weekend and I was at f 5.6-8 on every setup!
 
in my opinion, I have yet to see anything shot with the Brevis that made me say, "wow that is the look I want" Where as the SG that happens almost consistently and the lex half the time. So for me thats where my decision lies. Because with the tests that Dennis has done, it showed that the Brevis is incredible when it comes to light loss, but thats not something I am overly concerned about. I do, as I have said before think that Dennis and Cinevate are amazing for offering upgrades, multiple imaging elements etc, I just can't get passed the look of the sg. My descision will be made once the blade comes out.
 
I have nothing against the Brevis. Like Adam, I haven't really seen much shot with it that make me go WOW, although it also produces nice images. I've seen plenty for the Letus, and I've seen just as much with the SGpro. I'm not really convinced that the interchangeable elements is something that I actually need. I feel like if I want to change how it looks, I can do so in post.

With the Letus, does anybody find it extremely limiting to only be able to stop down as far as 5.6? What if you need more depth of field? Do you guys take off the adapter and try to get the looks to match in post?

With the SGpro, does the Flip unit do anything like soften the image/edges? Or does the flip work without detracting any quality from the image (other than further light loss).
 
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from what i hear the flip units in general, solve lots of the problems adapters have.
 
Okay, I've had it with the speculation. Who out there has done extensive work with the new Brevis. I posted a thread requesting a review a few weeks back and nothing. So I ask again, somebody, who's used it over at least a week tell us how it performs.

I has so many features I dig, but I can't afford to be a guinea pig right now.

So who's got the goods?
 
ANTshooter said:
I like both. I can only buy one. I like the Extreme, but because of its design, I've read here that you can only stop down as far as f5.6 before you start seeing grain. True? THAT is the dealbreaker for me, because I don't want to be forced to use a shallow DOF in all of my shots. (Philip Bloom's LEX video is doing a pretty good job at convincing me otherwise though.)
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This might not make your decision any easier but if you're transitioning into a world where Depth of Field impacts frame composition and overall production it may be time to experiment with a DSLR.

Aside from lens stop, apparent DOF changes with focal length, distance from subject, lighting and for 35mm Adapters the Zoom setting on your camera OR the Frame size: SLR, Vistavision, Academy, Super35, S16 (I think I've got Academy and S35 separate and they should be lumped. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Indeed, only being able to stop down to 4~5.6 range creates a headache, there's no denying that. However, the ability and the need to when concerning interiors and lighting tends to vanish for most shooting scenarios. From personal experience and learning from people who've been in a film world longer than I have been you'll see the need to exceed a stop of 5.6 mostly when dealing with large bits of camera action. Steadicam, jib/crane, moving vehicle shots or large party scenarios. Those sorts of things. Just as well, generally when these shots are in play you're using a wider focal length. 16-24 (and if you're crazy 10mm). At a 16mm focal length your DOF is apparently deeper, less shallow to begin with. And so forth with 20, 24 and just on the edge 28.

That's just one example of controlling depth of field and it's relation to frame compositions.

Barry was the first, I've backed up his assessment that an Academy frame-size is ideal for these contraptions but there are others who prefer an SLR frame size or Vistavision. In the end it may be more in line with frame composition and lens selection as opposed to reaching stops in excess of 5.6.

More than that to it! But that's a little of what I've learned in the field.

As Tim describes, you should choose the one that best fits your overall body of work and either the SG or Extreme will do that with their own sets of limitations.
 
Kholi said:
Indeed, only being able to stop down to 4~5.6 range creates a headache, there's no denying that. However, the ability and the need to when concerning interiors and lighting tends to vanish for most shooting scenarios. From personal experience and learning from people who've been in a film world longer than I have been you'll see the need to exceed a stop of 5.6 mostly when dealing with large bits of camera action. Steadicam, jib/crane, moving vehicle shots or large party scenarios. Those sorts of things. Just as well, generally when these shots are in play you're using a wider focal length. 16-24 (and if you're crazy 10mm). At a 16mm focal length your DOF is apparently deeper, less shallow to begin with. And so forth with 20, 24 and just on the edge 28.
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Kholi, thanks for your extensive reply. I have done my share of photography but I still have a lot to learn, you can never stop. I shoot with a Nikon D80 and my 18-200 3.5-5-6 VR lens, although I haven't taken that out in a while since I've been busier with my A1. I love both. And I would love to use this lens on either an Extreme or an SGpro but I dont know if it'll have enough light to work with. If somebody has tried, please share your experience! Most people say that ZOOMS and 35mm adapters are no-no's because they're slow. I'm still curious how it pans out though.

What I enjoy most about these forums is that you can learn from other's people's experience, other people's problems, and there's a lot of people willing to give advice. And you're right. I guess you wouldn't necessarily close the aperture further than 5.6 for narrative work unless you have a very dynamic shot or if you need that much depth to show whatever it is that you want to show. I suppose that if i really do need that much depth, then I could easily stick a 28mm into the mount and my problems would be solved.

But what if you do want to shot something in telephoto, like at 135mm. And shallow DOF isn't an issue because at this range it's almost automatic and you have way too much light than you'd like. For these instances, I'm thinking that it'll become necessary to stop down further than 5.6 so that so you can expose properly.

For all the benefits the Letus gives you, you can't ask for tomatoes! I guess that's not so bad. You can't have everything!
 
ANTshooter said:
Kholi, thanks for your extensive reply. I have done my share of photography but I still have a lot to learn, you can never stop. I shoot with a Nikon D80 and my 18-200 3.5-5-6 VR lens, although I haven't taken that out in a while since I've been busier with my A1. I love both. And I would love to use this lens on either an Extreme or an SGpro but I dont know if it'll have enough light to work with. If somebody has tried, please share your experience! Most people say that ZOOMS and 35mm adapters are no-no's because they're slow. I'm still curious how it pans out though.
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You may find that sucker a lil too heavy! LoL. But by all means experimentation is what it's ALL about. I would be curious as to how this works out for adapters. Since the aperture control isn't there for VR lenses it may present a problem as far as stopping down BUT you might not even WANT to considering it's speed at the widest aperture. Try it and let us know!

As far as Zooms and 35mm adapters go, this might've been leaning toward truth BEFORE hand. When adapters lost 1- 2 stops of light or more. Also, seeing as how HD cams were slower than their SD counterparts, well yeah... 3.5 is slow. I disagree with that notion now. With the Speed of an HVX200a combined with the Brevis, Letus extreme or Ultimate and all of the newer adapters on the slate that lose .5 stops of light (or less? hmmm) a slower zoom is no longer a no-no. In fact, it's welcomed. Slower Zooms are just as sharp as their faster cousins and are much cheaper! So, yeah, in the past? Maybe no-no on the zoom. I am happy to have purchased a Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 28-70/3.5~4.5. It's a great lens and didn't break my wallet. I can see it being very useful for exterior work when time's on the line to save daylight.

What I enjoy most about these forums is that you can learn from other's people's experience, other people's problems, and there's a lot of people willing to give advice. And you're right. I guess you wouldn't necessarily close the aperture further than 5.6 for narrative work unless you have a very dynamic shot or if you need that much depth to show whatever it is that you want to show. I suppose that if i really do need that much depth, then I could easily stick a 28mm into the mount and my problems would be solved.
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In MANY instances this would probably be the case. I'm a big fan of 28mm and 24mm lenses and I'm trying to get my hands on a Tokina ATX 12-24 because of my wide obsession. Could get comical, but I loves it! It generally makes it better on the AC as well if you aren't pulling focus for extraneous movements.

But what if you do want a shot something in telephoto, like 135mm. And shallow DOF isn't an issue because at this range it's almost automatic and you have way too much light than you'd like. For these instances, I'm thinking that it'll become necessary to stop down further than 5.6 so that so you can expose properly.

For all the benefits the Letus gives you, you can't ask for tomatoes! I guess that's not so bad. You can't have everything!
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This is where it's time to learn how your camera (A1, HVX, smaller format cams) has an extra added advantage. They lie in 1) Internal ND Filters and 2) Internal Iris. Can't tell you how many times both have come in handy for controlling incoming light on an outdoors shoot.

As well, and this goes for any camera or adapter, it's time to start thinking about a Mattebox and a set of filters. I know, it's an added expense but this is an essential piece of the 35mm Adapter puzzle. As the prices fall, they become more affordable. One particular piece of glass that all shooters should have (naked cam or 35mm Adapter) is a circular polarizer or a polarizer in general. The sky is a beautiful thing, keep it in tact and your frames looking more natural and pleasant by buyin' one of these suckers. I still have to get one and probably will be going Redrock (see their latest announcement on filters).

For that specific shot, utilizing external NDs and the camera iris would be ideal but UNTIL you can get those, don't forget that your camera has internal and camera iris! You won't have to rely on the lens stop to cut light.
 
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Kholi said:
You may find that sucker a lil too heavy! LoL. But by all means experimentation is what it's ALL about. I would be curious as to how this works out for adapters. Since the aperture control isn't there for VR lenses it may present a problem as far as stopping down BUT you might not even WANT to considering it's speed at the widest aperture. Try it and let us know!

As far as Zooms and 35mm adapters go, this might've been leaning toward truth BEFORE hand. When adapters lost 1- 2 stops of light or more. Also, seeing as how HD cams were slower than their SD counterparts, well yeah... 3.5 is slow. I disagree with that notion now. With the Speed of an HVX200a combined with the Brevis, Letus extreme or Ultimate and all of the newer adapters on the slate that lose .5 stops of light (or less? hmmm) a slower zoom is no longer a no-no. In fact, it's welcomed. Slower Zooms are just as sharp as their faster cousins and are much cheaper! So, yeah, in the past? Maybe no-no on the zoom. I am happy to have purchased a Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 28-70/3.5~4.5. It's a great lens and didn't break my wallet. I can see it being very useful for exterior work when time's on the line to save daylight.
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One of the FIRST things I'll be trying as soon as I mount the adapter on the A1 is to mount that 18-200 on the adapter! I'm already expecting black!

Kholi said:
In MANY instances this would probably be the case. I'm a big fan of 28mm and 24mm lenses and I'm trying to get my hands on a Tokina ATX 12-24 because of my wide obsession. Could get comical, but I loves it! It generally makes it better on the AC as well if you aren't pulling focus for extraneous movements.

This is where it's time to learn how your camera (A1, HVX, smaller format cams) has an extra added advantage. They lie in 1) Internal ND Filters and 2) Internal Iris. Can't tell you how many times both have come in handy for controlling incoming light on an outdoors shoot.

As well, and this goes for any camera or adapter, it's time to start thinking about a Mattebox and a set of filters. I know, it's an added expense but this is an essential piece of the 35mm Adapter puzzle.
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Yeah I knew this was coming. I'm gonna try to hold out on this one for some time though. I think I'll stick to using ND filters and the iris as much as I can before I actually do reach the $6000 mark BEFORE I've even ordered the adapter!
Kholi said:
As the prices fall, they become more affordable. One particular piece of glass that all shooters should have (naked cam or 35mm Adapter) is a circular polarizer or a polarizer in general. The sky is a beautiful thing, keep it in tact and your frames looking more natural and pleasant by buyin' one of these suckers. I still have to get one and probably will be going Redrock (see their latest announcement on filters).

For that specific shot, utilizing external NDs and the camera iris would be ideal but UNTIL you can get those, don't forget that your camera has internal and camera iris! You won't have to rely on the lens stop to cut light.
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All this talk and I'm still undecided between Letus or the SGPro...
 
when people say you can stop down passed 5.6 is that on the slr lens itself or the video camera or both? You can still stop down further on the video camera right? Ideally I would like a spinning adapter which loses the light of the LEX which is pointing to the blade. I am personally going to wait until I see some blade footage before shelling out any money. My research has brought me to either the lex or SG however. Time will tell.
 
If your unit is clean (this goes with all of them) then you can stop down the camera to F11 without seeing any anomalies. If the unit is dirty inside then dust will start rearing it's head when you hit 4 - 5.6. This is one reason why cleanliness is key with these adapters.

You really want the flexibility of the Camera Iris and NDs available.
 
i read somewhere here on dvx that the letus extreme is more prone to getting dust in it than the sgpro + flip. is that even a big issue?

i got a little twist here...which one would you rather spend on, a zacuto rails system or redrock FF? i was just exploring the options. I do like the zacuto for obvious reasons, its expandable, carries a lifetime warranty, and not to mention they already have units so i wont have to wait 3-4 weeks! Of course its gonna take me a long long time before I can cough up the money for their z-grips...

or I can get cavision rails RS15IIM-LEX or just the RS15IIM along with the RR FF.

the reason is because i just realized that if I get a indifocus, i'm spending $389 for a temporary solution, whereas most people seem to be more than pleased with the RR FF's performance. Spend a little more now, but save later. It has to be either one though, the Zacuto rails or the follow focus. that seems to be the way to go if i'm going for the letus.
 
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I don't think I saw anyone comment on this yet, if so sorry I missed it. Regarding shipping, if you ordered it TODAY, it WOULD much more than likely arrive on time. I JUST got mine (lovin' it, tons of fun, can't wait for next short film project), and it took almost exactly 1 month to arrive. From what they said when I called, the wait time from order placement to arrival is still typically around 3 to 5 weeks.
 
personally I dont know why people overlook the indifocus rails. I currently have a set with shoulder mount and grip and I love it. I also have the new follow focus and see nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Mind you I havn't used the RR but the new FF from IF hahahah, has far less backlash then the old model...so they say. I simply need to rep the indifocus. Fast ship times as well. Good people over there.
 
There're always various degrees of usage and experience here, that's all. Some people will find it just fine, other may have more experience with all of the products and have preferences. They all can get the job done. I haven't used Indifocus rails personally, but have experience with RR, Cavision and Zacuto and find that RR is the best solution for me.

So, same boat, it's just what works out for ya. :B
 
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