El Director
Veteran
I got that part right!
Actually, I'm looking forward to seeing how this comes out. Best of luck!
filmman launches GOLD DIGGERS on KickStarter.com
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I got that part right!
Actually, I'm looking forward to seeing how this comes out. Best of luck!
filmman
Veteran
Why do you need money for this? We're in Hollywood, Brandon!
Why do you need money for this? We're in Hollywood, Brandon!
As for scripts, I haven't shown one to a studio in 30 years. All great scripts get stolen, especially the Bible based stories.
Remember how secretive you guys were with NGL? When the first trailer appeared, I asked why did the guy say, "Because I'm not a Christian?" And you did not answer the question.
I thought he meant he was Jewish maybe or some other religion. ... In fact, that's still how it sounds like to me -- the guy must be from a different religion; but he is still in love with his estranged wife and the mother of his son.
This is a storyline that I'd be more interested in seeing as a movie.
If someone is an atheist, but he comes from a Christian background, he is still a Christian.... I know people say that sometimes when they mean to say they no longer believe. However, in a movie it's confusing -- at least to me.
I think the line "Because I'm not a Christian" is appropriate for a Christian genre movie though. Because it operates like a hook: what is he then?
But in my movie THE WOMAN AT THE WELL, I don't need a hook; it's a Bible story. I want to tell it in a more accurate and revealing way. I don't want to lose the element of surprise, because people have never seen it from this angle yet.
This too is a personal choice and not the only way of making this movie. The fact that this kickstarter project may not get funded is troubling to me; but I'll get over it....
Thanks for your comments and continued interest in my movie efforts.
Why do you need money for this? We're in Hollywood, Brandon!
It's a period piece!
You mean Survival? I saw that trailer. I'm not doing a film like that. This one looks like a slasher movie.
As for scripts, I haven't shown one to a studio in 30 years. All great scripts get stolen, especially the Bible based stories.
Remember how secretive you guys were with NGL? When the first trailer appeared, I asked why did the guy say, "Because I'm not a Christian?" And you did not answer the question.
I thought he meant he was Jewish maybe or some other religion. ... In fact, that's still how it sounds like to me -- the guy must be from a different religion; but he is still in love with his estranged wife and the mother of his son.
This is a storyline that I'd be more interested in seeing as a movie.
If someone is an atheist, but he comes from a Christian background, he is still a Christian.... I know people say that sometimes when they mean to say they no longer believe. However, in a movie it's confusing -- at least to me.
I think the line "Because I'm not a Christian" is appropriate for a Christian genre movie though. Because it operates like a hook: what is he then?
But in my movie THE WOMAN AT THE WELL, I don't need a hook; it's a Bible story. I want to tell it in a more accurate and revealing way. I don't want to lose the element of surprise, because people have never seen it from this angle yet.
This too is a personal choice and not the only way of making this movie. The fact that this kickstarter project may not get funded is troubling to me; but I'll get over it....
Thanks for your comments and continued interest in my movie efforts.
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filmman
Veteran
Of course there is a script!
Of course there is a script!
I don't show my scripts to anyone by the way. When I audition actors, I use other scripts or ask them to do sketches.
On the first day of the shoot (and every subsequent day of the shoot), the actors get the scenes they are doing the first four hours. Then I give them the scenes for the next 4 hours after lunch. This way they don't get to rehearse by themselves, and especially in the afternoon, I don't want one actor directing the scenes of the other actors.
For those people who don't have lines or many lines, I don't give them any sides or scenes from the screenplay.
I like to keep complete control of the project. Nobody gets a copy of the whole script at any time during the production.
Thanks for asking. I appreciate your continued interest in my project and methodology. I'm learning a great deal from you regarding art work and marketing. I think you have potential...
Of course there is a script!
Yes, I have a script.
I don't show my scripts to anyone by the way. When I audition actors, I use other scripts or ask them to do sketches.
On the first day of the shoot (and every subsequent day of the shoot), the actors get the scenes they are doing the first four hours. Then I give them the scenes for the next 4 hours after lunch. This way they don't get to rehearse by themselves, and especially in the afternoon, I don't want one actor directing the scenes of the other actors.
For those people who don't have lines or many lines, I don't give them any sides or scenes from the screenplay.
I like to keep complete control of the project. Nobody gets a copy of the whole script at any time during the production.
Thanks for asking. I appreciate your continued interest in my project and methodology. I'm learning a great deal from you regarding art work and marketing. I think you have potential...
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
You all ways say this as an excuse to not shoot a good trailer. Why? What does the genre have to do with shooting a good trailer. I'm not shooting a film like that either but my trailers have to be good. And I agree, it really is becoming laughable. As you can see by clicking on my "Divinity" sig, the whole thread is gone simply because the movie is being rebuilt from the top down, cast and such so I totally overhauled it, even the thread. I'm not saying for you to delete the thread but this project needs an overhaul, no matter what the genre.
Also you need to delete this line "So I thought, if there is an audience for Christian movies out there, perhaps people would fund this project."
from your pitch. I'm openly Christian and would ignore your project based on this line alone, unless you really did something that I was wowed by, otherwise I'd feel you were simply trying to get money from me. Frankly, it's sounds shysterish. I'd tell you to go talk to Robert Tilton, he's got money from all those $100 and $1000 vows people make to his ministry. Also you sound like you don't know there's an audience for Christian films. People who watch Christian films would be like "what?" You sound like a non-Christian trying to scam money is basically what I'm saying.
There's another guy in one of these thread that got hammered for doing this too. I never thought I'd hear someone else say they did this. Maybe you two should team up.
This makes no sense. I keep complete control of my projects and I let everyone working on it see the script. You want to keep complete control? Fund the project yourself and there you'll have the control you want, that's how I do it.
Also you want to do something really exciting, cast a dark skinned Jewish guy to play Jesus. You know, like the description of him in the Bible and all.
-Nate
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filmman
Veteran
I'd love to have Denzel Washington play the role. I think Denzel, besides being a personal Christian, has a real great voice for the role.
But I also agree with you, regarding having Jesus played by a dark skinned man, preferably someone who is Jewish. I think Jewish actors would give the role a lot of credibility because their mindset is the same as that of Jesus. Of course, that's a no-brainer, as Jesus was always a Jew, and so were the rest of the disciples and apostles. To this day I think in order to understand what Jesus said it's important to keep that in mind and read the Scriptures from a Jewish perspective. Well, this is the undercurrent and distinction of my version of THE WOMAN AT THE WELL.
That's interesting. You can do that. I mean you're probably going on the basis of what talent you have on top -- name talent that is. It will work for you if you have the money for them already or can get it somehow.
The other way would have been to do what you were doing at the start, to build the project from bottom up. That is stick with the money that you have right now and shoot the best movie you can and worry about what talent you will end up depending on your financial resources.
I prefer the latter way myself, because I don't like to wait for money and I don't believe in jazzing up a project just to attract the money.
I agree about the project overhaul too. I'm in the process of overhauling it right now.
I will do something that you will be wowed by. That's always been my goal, to do something spectacular -- something totally unexpected.
This is not about money. I don't expect to be funded. I will know that I have something exciting going if I don't get funded but feel that I have done my best and that my best is what I was meant to do.
I know there is an audience for Christian movies; but this is not the audience I'm interested in. I'm interested in creating a new Christian audience for my films, an audience that never forgets that Jesus is Jewish and that the Kingdom was never taken from the Jews and given to the Gentiles. The Gentiles is a term that was never used in the Scriptures. In fact there is no such term in the Jewish language. There are Jews and there are "the nations." In other words, Jews and non-Jews; there is no "Gentiles." That's a fabrication that has caused all the problems in the world. But this is just my opinion
Azmyth
Veteran
I will say this filmman. For someone with as much experience as you do, you sure do have an odd way of doing things. I'm nearly a complete amateur at this, having never been to film school, and never done much of anything like this before now and even I would think its rather silly to withhold the script from at least my actors.
Almost every person who auditioned who was a "pro" actor wanted to read the entire script before they even thought about auditioning. I mean, why would you commit to a project that you can't even read the script for? I mean, maybe there is some method to your madness but me personally being an actor, and now a writer and now a producer. I would pass on this project if I was not allowed to read the material before I auditioned.
I will say this filmman, you stick to your guns at least.
Almost every person who auditioned who was a "pro" actor wanted to read the entire script before they even thought about auditioning. I mean, why would you commit to a project that you can't even read the script for? I mean, maybe there is some method to your madness but me personally being an actor, and now a writer and now a producer. I would pass on this project if I was not allowed to read the material before I auditioned.
I will say this filmman, you stick to your guns at least.
"I would think its rather silly to withhold the script from at least my actors." Many would Azmyth, but filmakers like Andrea Arnold have gotten amazing results by doing it in a similar manner to what Filmman is describing. Andrea Arnold received an academy award for her short Wasp. She used this method for her followup to "Red Road", "Fish Tank" ,which premiered at Cannes last year. Some of the stuff Filmman is talking about may sound a bit odd but its not like hes hurting anyone if he makes the film this way. I'd rather he worked in a method hes comfortable with. I hope everyone on this forum continues to be supportive of Filmman.
filmman
Veteran
Trailers, proofs of concept, teasers, promos -- they all get expensive when you're dealing with a period piece like the story of the Woman at the Well. So I don't like to do them just to raise money. I'd rather use my resources in shooting the movie itself and not on teasers. And you're right, that's why I finance my own no-budget movies. LOL. I should write a book on how to finance a zero budget movie. That would be a funny book, don't you think?
Because I want to get creative too and I just don't want to put it down on paper and limit myself to traditional way of doing the movie as a whole. I don't want the trailer, a script or any preconceived notion from preventing me doing a really satisfying movie on a subject I'm well familiar with.
Here (link below) is an attempt to explain my difficulty in doing a proof of concept. I really don't like anything that has been done on the stories of the Bible so far. I mean, I do enjoy all efforts at Christian movies (whether overt or not), but I want to make movies uniquely of my own style.
http://www.felliniesque.com/woman_at_the_well.html
Of course, I wasn't talking about Robert DeNiro and such. LOL. I mean, I would of course need to give them the script before such actors would ever consider doing the movie.
I'm talking about non-SAG actors or even SAG actors who are not name actors yet. There is a tendency among young and new actors to want to take matters in their own hands and promote their careers. Sometimes it's hard to prevent them from "directing" themselves in a scene. They have done a lot of studying in all kinds of classes and workshops, so many of them can't resist the temptation to change the script. "Can I do it like this?"
I honestly don't mind listening to everyone -- cast and crew -- but sometimes it gets to be too much, and when money is involved and time is a factor, I'd rather figure out a way to prevent actors from taking over the set -- as much as possible.
Thank you, lambert
I like actors actually, and sometimes I even collaborate. LOL. But there are some subjects that I'd rather control entirely, and when it comes to the Scriptures, I really can't allow any interpretation outside of what I'm trying to get at.
robmneilson
Veteran
I'm talking about non-SAG actors or even SAG actors who are not name actors yet. There is a tendency among young and new actors to want to take matters in their own hands and promote their careers. Sometimes it's hard to prevent them from "directing" themselves in a scene. They have done a lot of studying in all kinds of classes and workshops, so many of them can't resist the temptation to change the script. "Can I do it like this?"
But there are some subjects that I'd rather control entirely, and when it comes to the Scriptures, I really can't allow any interpretation outside of what I'm trying to get at.[/quote]
Why use actors at all then? Why not just make an animated film so you can have COMPLETE control and not have to rely on actors to act?
I do understand what you are saying to some degree, but isn't half the fun of working with actors getting a fresh take on something from a different perspective?
But there are some subjects that I'd rather control entirely, and when it comes to the Scriptures, I really can't allow any interpretation outside of what I'm trying to get at.[/quote]
Why use actors at all then? Why not just make an animated film so you can have COMPLETE control and not have to rely on actors to act?
I do understand what you are saying to some degree, but isn't half the fun of working with actors getting a fresh take on something from a different perspective?
El Director
Veteran
Dude! You totally should!
filmman
Veteran
Oh, you mean like AVATAR, with the electronics pads on their faces, legs and bodies? That's too expensive. And even those actors you can't direct them if you give them the whole script up front, because they come up with their own acting style, which a drama teacher has taught them -- or even worse, it's something they came up with on their own or learned it from another actor on the set doing his thing.
And as for straight cartoon characters like Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck, well, they're too difficult to control -- first of all I'm not in the mood to draw 24 frames, or even 12 frames per second -- they don't look natural, I mean.
I prefer the natural reaction of actors doing a scene for the first time. Observe the following video clip from a typical audition that I conduct: http://www.felliniesque.com/vlog/gong-smith_audition.html
See that's natural, unrehearsed and completely to my liking. The actors get to contribute their skill; but within my vision.
Yes, but different from my different perspective. In other words, I get to choose what's to be different about the subsequent performance
See, I respect my actors. I want them to act natural; I don't believe in lobotomized actors -- which is what Hollywood does to them with all these contrived styles of acting: how to do a killer audition, how to get the job even when you don't qualify for it, how to do a scene so you become popular, and how to be politically correct in your performance or acceptance speech at the Academy Awards ... whatever; you know what I mean? No lobotomies for my actors, is all I'm saying.LOL
filmman
Veteran
How to Finance a Zero Budget Movie
How to Finance a Zero Budget Movie
How to Finance a Zero Budget Movie
I have already begun. It's going to be the companion to my DVD on How to Shoot a Zero Budget Movie and Live to Talk About it :2vrolijk_08:
robmneilson
Veteran
Whelp I can't say anything other than that I agree to disagree with you. Good luck with the feature filmman, but please make a teaser for it if you want to raise any money for the film!
Azmyth
Veteran
If you do write a book about how to make a zero budget movie, I think you should have someone else write the fundraising part lol.
I do realize we all have different ways of doing things, and technically there is no "right" or "wrong" way as this is still an art form at the end of the day.
I think we are all just trying to help you move forward with your project rather than sitting here talking about why your not having any luck raising funding. The answers to those questions are fairly obvious.
1. your page has no info that would be enticing. Part of that is due to the subject matter... which brings me to point 2.
2. the subject matter and the style of film is very very very very very.. niche. If I walked up to 50 random people right now and asked them if they knew what fellinesque was.. they'd be like those people on David Letterman that get asked who the current president is. Simply, your doing something pretty off the wall, and its just gonna be a tough sell no matter how you look at it.
3. Your audience is going to be very "specific" and general movie goers just probably aren't going to be interested. You need to be targeting your specific audience who are going to want to see a christian based fellinesque film.
Good luck.
I do realize we all have different ways of doing things, and technically there is no "right" or "wrong" way as this is still an art form at the end of the day.
I think we are all just trying to help you move forward with your project rather than sitting here talking about why your not having any luck raising funding. The answers to those questions are fairly obvious.
1. your page has no info that would be enticing. Part of that is due to the subject matter... which brings me to point 2.
2. the subject matter and the style of film is very very very very very.. niche. If I walked up to 50 random people right now and asked them if they knew what fellinesque was.. they'd be like those people on David Letterman that get asked who the current president is. Simply, your doing something pretty off the wall, and its just gonna be a tough sell no matter how you look at it.
3. Your audience is going to be very "specific" and general movie goers just probably aren't going to be interested. You need to be targeting your specific audience who are going to want to see a christian based fellinesque film.
Good luck.
filmman
Veteran
A teaser that results in funding would be nice.
A teaser that results in funding would be nice.
A teaser that results in funding would be nice.
Thank you for the previous critiques too. I value your opinion; a teaser that loosens up some money from those that enjoy being teased would be great.
filmman
Veteran
You're consistent too!
You're consistent too!
Thanks again for reviewing my project.
You're consistent too!
Well, I'm the expert in this range of budgets though. You see, zero budget is deceiving; the bottom is at -$20 million (if you make a movie and it loses $20 million!) The upper limit is $0.00 :2vrolijk_08:
This I wholeheartedly agree with you. It's an art form at the end of principal photography; then it turns etirely into a business.
You're right about felliniesque not being a well known term. For me it's more of a style of choice, rather than an enticing concept for fund raising purposes.
Thanks again for reviewing my project.
Jon Starr
Veteran
I'm sorry, but maybe it was the distracting music, wipes and super-imposed band going over the performance but that did not come off as a good audition. Sure it's unrehearsed, but it was one noted, bland and when she did show us anything it came off as forced. So I'm not really seeing what you mean by it being natural...
I'm no expert, but Hollywood directors all work differently. Some are amazing, working with actors, pushing them, asking them for something different each time, and some directors like to do a lot of improv to get something natural.
I worked on a feature film (it was indy mind you), where the director did it all improv to get a natural performance. However he still worked with a script to know where to lead the actors. It was also so everyone had something to work with.
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As for the script comments about never wanting to show anyone... well you gotta do something... you have to show us something. You want to raise money for your project, but you can't shoot anything because it's a period piece, you don't want to show anyone your script (do you at least show it to some people for re-writes?), and you don't have anything else to show...
To be honest I just don't think you'll raise any money. You can't be afraid to get the idea out there. Ideas are stolen, sure, but you can't make a movie without it getting it out there unless you always self-finance and do everything by yourself.
filmman
Veteran
Yes, I agree; I always have the scenes and dialogue in the hands of my actors before we shoot. I give them plenty of time to read and rehears. When I'm shooting 35mm, I'm taking time to load magazines and fiddling around with the set, lights, props, etc. So we're always talking about the movie and going over the lines and discussing blocking. I keep it pretty simple, as my stories are about people in real situation. I hardly ever do action films myself now. I don't like violent stories, just dialogue and drama.
Now, when I'm shooting for other people, I know how to handle action scenes, violence and special effects, including pyro and helicopter shots. I've shot a lot of action movies and martial arts movies.
But as for showing the script to actors, it's just that I don't like them to go home, call each other and do rehearsals. Sometimes they will rewrite some lines. I've had actors do the first read through for me in the morning and I honestly didn't find one word that was the same as in the script I'd given them -- because, you see, I used to spend $200 on printing scripts and giving them to all my actors, including the extras, for crying out loud. LOL
Now, I work with few actors and I work in a very friendly and artistic way. I end up getting better results. It's just how I like to shoot my personal movies.
With this kickstarter project, I kind of dived into it without much planning, because the idea of shooting a no-budget movie for $25,000 appealed to me. But in retrospect, it's not going to be possible to even shoot a $25,000 feature film without giving away some control to others in the process. With my own money, it's much easier to keep things hidden until it's time to reveal them. So, if THE WOMAN AT THE WELL gets funded it will be a miracle -- but miracles do happen
Jon Starr
Veteran
But see, I'm no expert, but I feel you need to have your script out there, at least to a few trusted people for review. I'm not talking about giving it to actors, I'm talking about other friends and scriptwriters, plus possible investors, producers, etc. Film is a mass media, it's not a personal art form (unless that's what you want to do, but then why do you need money?), so you have to be ready to send it around a bit. But hey, that's just me.
As for actors changing lines, we'll if you want it to be natural the worse thing is to restrict their performance. To me having them read a script word for word is restriction. I've heard many times that you have to expect for an actor to make the performance their own, to change it a bit, or else you'll be trying to mould them into something you see, and thus hindering the performance. Like I tell my actors, feel free to change the line if it works for you, it's just gotta be consistent. On set we discuss changing lines all the time. It goes through many modifications.But perhaps you're talking about them doing it on their own rather than with you...
As for actors changing lines, we'll if you want it to be natural the worse thing is to restrict their performance. To me having them read a script word for word is restriction. I've heard many times that you have to expect for an actor to make the performance their own, to change it a bit, or else you'll be trying to mould them into something you see, and thus hindering the performance. Like I tell my actors, feel free to change the line if it works for you, it's just gotta be consistent. On set we discuss changing lines all the time. It goes through many modifications.But perhaps you're talking about them doing it on their own rather than with you...
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