Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
this is true.
filmman launches GOLD DIGGERS on KickStarter.com
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this is true.
filmman
Veteran
hilarious is good.
hilarious is good.
Thank you for visiting. I'm still interested in all constructive criticism. It's very encouraging that digital video capture and editing is gaining acceptance among the distributors.
As soon as I have repaired my car's water pump, I'm going to go out there and shoot a new proof of concept. If this project doesn't get funded, I know now a few new methods that will help me with a new kickstarter project.
I've decided to shoot THE WOMAN AT THE WELL in 30p with my Sony Z1U. I actually prefer the look of 30p to 24p. 24p is too jerky for my taste. It looks good in 35mm, but not on the browser monitors. Perhaps it's because it's not 24p but 23.98 fps, and maybe that .02 per second is necessary to produce the acceptable perception of motion picture. I don't know; this might be far fetched...
Your comments are appreciated.
hilarious is good.
Thank you for visiting. I'm still interested in all constructive criticism. It's very encouraging that digital video capture and editing is gaining acceptance among the distributors.
As soon as I have repaired my car's water pump, I'm going to go out there and shoot a new proof of concept. If this project doesn't get funded, I know now a few new methods that will help me with a new kickstarter project.
I've decided to shoot THE WOMAN AT THE WELL in 30p with my Sony Z1U. I actually prefer the look of 30p to 24p. 24p is too jerky for my taste. It looks good in 35mm, but not on the browser monitors. Perhaps it's because it's not 24p but 23.98 fps, and maybe that .02 per second is necessary to produce the acceptable perception of motion picture. I don't know; this might be far fetched...
Your comments are appreciated.
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
here we go again... shoot 30p it'll look like a BBC show...
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
Wow... bad advice.
filmman
Veteran
Cine Frame 30 on the Sony Z1.
Cine Frame 30 on the Sony Z1.
I know, you mean the Cine Frame 24 on the Sony Z1U is said to be not as good. However, I was reading the camera manual and it said that the Cine Frame 30 was really nice.
I'm going to go out and do a test probably early next week, and I'll report back.
Brandon thought you meant shooting 30p as in the older Canon line of cameras.
Have you seen my new teaser for THE WOMAN AT THE WELL?
http://www.felliniesque.com/woman_at_the_well.html
Cine Frame 30 on the Sony Z1.
I know, you mean the Cine Frame 24 on the Sony Z1U is said to be not as good. However, I was reading the camera manual and it said that the Cine Frame 30 was really nice.
I'm going to go out and do a test probably early next week, and I'll report back.
Brandon thought you meant shooting 30p as in the older Canon line of cameras.
Have you seen my new teaser for THE WOMAN AT THE WELL?
http://www.felliniesque.com/woman_at_the_well.html
El Director
Veteran
Actually it's not. The average viewer won't be able to tell the difference. They'll notice interlaced vs progressive before they'll be able to tell you what frame rate a picture was shot on. And many cameras don't shoot true 24p. It's simulated like the old Canon XL2.
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
where did you steal that footage from?
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
You're wrong. 30p and 24p is EASY to spot, and though a lot of viewers don't consciously know what is off, they know something isn't the same.
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
The Z1u doesn't have a true 24p mode. He needs to do 1080i or 30p and convert to 24p. Personally I wouldn't even bother with the conversion if he's not going to print to film, but that's me. My first film was shot 24p on the original DVX100 and it wasn't shot in 24pA just regular 24p which was in a 30p stream. If he has one of the new Sonys that do real 24p then I would advise 24p totally. 30p with Cinegamma really didn't look all that different than 24p with cinegamma, but I don't doubt on a subconscious level people may be able to pick it up. I think with good lighting and some tweaking in post it wouldn't be a big deal. It's all about the first five minutes. Hook them in and 24p or 30p won't matter. Again, though if you're going for distribution or film prints convert to 24p.
-Nate
-Nate
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Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
24p with pulldown (in 29.97) is also really 24p just so you know.
El Director
Veteran
Actually the difference they spot is interlaced and non interlaced. I've actually tested this on average viewers so don't tell me I'm wrong. For filmmakers, yes, we can tell. But the audience can't. As soon as you go progressive, they won't know or care.
Loki
Veteran
It's pretty easy for the average viewer to spot the difference between 60i, 30p and 24p... they may not know the tech details.. but they can certainly see something isn't quite 'right'
El Director
Veteran
They only times they can tell 24p is when the filmmaker doesn't do the pulldown correctly and it's stuttery, or the filmmaker used a simulated 24p. To the audience, 30p looks just like the "real movies" so don't bother with 24 unless you're going to output to film or you can do it right.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Brandon, you're not right on this one - because he's specifically using a Sony Z1U. It doesn't have 24p, it has Cineframe 24 -- and that's nowhere near as good as real 24p. You're arguing 24p vs. 30p, and I'm right with you on that one, but if all you have is a Z1U, I think the best course would be to shoot 60i and convert to 24p in post, followed in second place by using cineframe 30, and the very very very very last resort should be to use cineframe 24.
Rippie
Veteran
hahaha exactly what I thought.
filmman
Veteran
24p, 24pA, 24pN, 24p with Pull Down, All analog TVs display 29.97
24p, 24pA, 24pN, 24p with Pull Down, All analog TVs display 29.97
That's what I found out by researching it, El. 24p, when captured in FCP, for example, plays as 29.97 fps. And all 24p digital movies and 24 fps 35mm or 16mm movies telecined -- all play as 29.97 on all analogue TVs. There are only a few Plasma TVs that display 24 fps progressively; all the others display everything as 29.97.
One of the experts on another user group pointed out something very interesting about the look of 24 fps that we associate with the film look. He said that our perception of 24 fps and the whole film look phenomenon has to do with how we perceive the telecined movies we see on TVs and monitors. In other words, the film look is really the 29.97 fps of 35mm films telecined and displayed on TVs -- that's the 24 fps film look.
Thanks for commenting on this topic. I'm in the process of exporting some clips from my feature THE RED QUEEN. I was never satisfied with the way it looks in my trailers. I shot the movie as 1080i 60i in HDV with my Sony Z1U, but when I made the clips, the encoding wasn't to my liking. (The movie looks great in DVD). The clips didn't come out sharp. I see that even the cheapest web cameras are sharper.
So I'm doing a number of tests today to see if I can improve the look by using the Compressor in FCP 5.04.
The reason I want to shoot THE WOMAN AT THE WELL in Cine Frame 30p with my Sony Z1U is so I will end up with better web formats also. And I'm thinking the Cine Frame 30 won't be bad in comparison to the 1080i 60i HDV format.
24p, 24pA, 24pN, 24p with Pull Down, All analog TVs display 29.97
That's what I found out by researching it, El. 24p, when captured in FCP, for example, plays as 29.97 fps. And all 24p digital movies and 24 fps 35mm or 16mm movies telecined -- all play as 29.97 on all analogue TVs. There are only a few Plasma TVs that display 24 fps progressively; all the others display everything as 29.97.
One of the experts on another user group pointed out something very interesting about the look of 24 fps that we associate with the film look. He said that our perception of 24 fps and the whole film look phenomenon has to do with how we perceive the telecined movies we see on TVs and monitors. In other words, the film look is really the 29.97 fps of 35mm films telecined and displayed on TVs -- that's the 24 fps film look.
Thanks for commenting on this topic. I'm in the process of exporting some clips from my feature THE RED QUEEN. I was never satisfied with the way it looks in my trailers. I shot the movie as 1080i 60i in HDV with my Sony Z1U, but when I made the clips, the encoding wasn't to my liking. (The movie looks great in DVD). The clips didn't come out sharp. I see that even the cheapest web cameras are sharper.
So I'm doing a number of tests today to see if I can improve the look by using the Compressor in FCP 5.04.
The reason I want to shoot THE WOMAN AT THE WELL in Cine Frame 30p with my Sony Z1U is so I will end up with better web formats also. And I'm thinking the Cine Frame 30 won't be bad in comparison to the 1080i 60i HDV format.
filmman
Veteran
Sony Z1U Cine Frame 24 and Cine Frame 30
Sony Z1U Cine Frame 24 and Cine Frame 30
Thanks for the comment, Barry. The Sony camera manual says that the "Cine Frame 30" is smoother than the "Cine Frame 24."
I have never tested these modes in my Sony Z1U. So I'm going out in a few days and testing all these formats and then exporting a few clips to study which is to my liking.
In this thread I'm learning a lot about digital formats that might help me make a transition to using digital filmmaking for some of my projects.
I think the Cine Frame 30 of the Sony Z1U is not the same look as the VHS 29.97 look of old TV. Any thoughts on that?
Sony Z1U Cine Frame 24 and Cine Frame 30
Thanks for the comment, Barry. The Sony camera manual says that the "Cine Frame 30" is smoother than the "Cine Frame 24."
I have never tested these modes in my Sony Z1U. So I'm going out in a few days and testing all these formats and then exporting a few clips to study which is to my liking.
In this thread I'm learning a lot about digital formats that might help me make a transition to using digital filmmaking for some of my projects.
I think the Cine Frame 30 of the Sony Z1U is not the same look as the VHS 29.97 look of old TV. Any thoughts on that?
filmman
Veteran
24pN is the only way to end up with 24 fps in digital as far as I know
24pN is the only way to end up with 24 fps in digital as far as I know
Apparently 24p ends up as 29.97 fps with pulldown. And it's very hard to do 24 fps with cameras that shoot 24p on tape. I don't know this technology well, but this is what I've been told by people on user groups.
24pN is supposed to produce true 24 fps in projects displayed on 24 fps Plasma screens.
24pN is the only way to end up with 24 fps in digital as far as I know
Apparently 24p ends up as 29.97 fps with pulldown. And it's very hard to do 24 fps with cameras that shoot 24p on tape. I don't know this technology well, but this is what I've been told by people on user groups.
24pN is supposed to produce true 24 fps in projects displayed on 24 fps Plasma screens.
filmman
Veteran
If it doesn't have Tom Cruise in it, forget theatrical 
If it doesn't have Tom Cruise in it, forget theatrical
I think the one thing that Adam drummed into my head in this thread is the unlikelihood of a digital movie with no names and a tiny budget making it into theaters.
And if the distributors want to do theatrical, they will blow up even VHS to 35mm, so I give up on that argument :violent5:
I'm going to test out the Cine Frame 30 feature on the Sony Z1U. I have a feeling I will like it. So the fact that the 1080i 60i converts better to 24 fps film-out is of no concern for me with this project.
If it doesn't have Tom Cruise in it, forget theatrical
I think the one thing that Adam drummed into my head in this thread is the unlikelihood of a digital movie with no names and a tiny budget making it into theaters.
And if the distributors want to do theatrical, they will blow up even VHS to 35mm, so I give up on that argument :violent5:
I'm going to test out the Cine Frame 30 feature on the Sony Z1U. I have a feeling I will like it. So the fact that the 1080i 60i converts better to 24 fps film-out is of no concern for me with this project.
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