Filmmaker's Question Regarding FX-1e

bourbonst61

bourbonst61

Member
Hello fellow DV'ers,

I am entering post-production on a feature film that I have decided I would like to shoot HD. I currently own a Sony HDR-HC1 and would like to upgrade to an FX-1, seeing as I already own a Beachtek XLR adaptor (which I understand is really the only big difference between the FX-1 and the Z1U), so here I arrive at the question for this post:

Should I purchase an FX-1e so I can shoot 50i rather than 60i? (a "much more simple conversion to 24p/deinterlaced video" I've read)

Take into consideration that this film will be seen and projected mostly by way of DVD or HDTV on varied-screens, so if there's any problems I may have editing a project shot on a PAL camera, I need to know about it. I understand the Cineframe 24 mode is to be avoided like the plague, so I am more for a smoother transition into deinterlaced/24fps video.

I am much more knowledgeable in other fields, and I'm afraid the PAL/NTSC bridge isn't exactly my forte. I apologize for my ignorance, but that's why I ask!

I hope to hear from you guys. Thanks in advance.
 
You should ask about this on dvinfo.net, more fx1 users there. It's funny I'm thinking of doing the same thing as you, buying a pal fx1 so I get cheap 50i, I just don't know though so please post anything you find out.
 
You shouldn't have any trouble editing the footage, only displaying it on an HDTV set in native format. Shoot in cineframe 25, then convert your footage to 24 frames per second before editing, which will slow the audio by 4 percent (not really noticeable). Burning your finished 24p sequence to DVD shouldn't pose any problems...
The Z1 does have additional image processing features the FX-1 doesn't, so it's not just the XLR inputs that make the difference. Not worth the 2000 dollars though.
 
Cf25 or Interlaced

Cf25 or Interlaced

After more than one year of use and tests, I came to the conclusion that the camera works perfectly in Cineframe 25. There is absolutely no need for 50i and no resolution gain. Maybe some programs can deinterlace and preserve a little more detail, but it's not visible an it makes the workflow unpractical.

But be careful, if you set the shutter on automatic, the camera will leave it at 25 in Cineframe mode. Sony probably thought it looks more like film. Also, some believe that the Cineframe mode works better with the shutter at 50. Nonsense. This camerra produces the most stunning images with short depths of field. Not only because of the freedom it gives you to select your preferred DOF, but because the HDV standard compresses images so much that if you only have one sharp area and the rest is out of focus, you will get better detail.
 
Batutta said:
You shouldn't have any trouble editing the footage, only displaying it on an HDTV set in native format. Shoot in cineframe 25, then convert your footage to 24 frames per second before editing, which will slow the audio by 4 percent (not really noticeable). Burning your finished 24p sequence to DVD shouldn't pose any problems...
The Z1 does have additional image processing features the FX-1 doesn't, so it's not just the XLR inputs that make the difference. Not worth the 2000 dollars though.
Click to expand...

if by advance imaging you mean more cinegamma options and skin tone dtl. sharper viewfinder. then yes just image advances. but nothing past that besides PAL/NTSC integration.
 
princigalli said:
After more than one year of use and tests, I came to the conclusion that the camera works perfectly in Cineframe 25. There is absolutely no need for 50i and no resolution gain. Maybe some programs can deinterlace and preserve a little more detail, but it's not visible an it makes the workflow unpractical.

But be careful, if you set the shutter on automatic, the camera will leave it at 25 in Cineframe mode. Sony probably thought it looks more like film. Also, some believe that the Cineframe mode works better with the shutter at 50. Nonsense. This camerra produces the most stunning images with short depths of field. Not only because of the freedom it gives you to select your preferred DOF, but because the HDV standard compresses images so much that if you only have one sharp area and the rest is out of focus, you will get better detail.
Click to expand...

Princigalli, I'm very interested in what you have to say about using CF25 in preference to 50i. I am making a documentary for DVD release and due to the subject matter I am most concerned about the preservation of detail and texture in the image. I have been doing tests and my preferred *look* is for neutral colour and WB with black stretch. I cannot decide between CF25 and 50i as although I prefer the look of Cineframe, I am concerned I am losing base detail. Could you say more about your statement that there is "no resolution gain" with 50i?

Also I am unclear about the second part of your post. Are you advocating shutter speeds above 50 in CF25? I would have thought that would produce a rather stacatto motion signature.
 
would you like me to send you some samples? It will take me a few days but I can post them.

As for shutter. Some people were advocating filming ALWAYS at shutter speed 50 in PAL and 60 in NTSC, because that would produce better deinterlacing. In CF25, I haven't seen any improvement when using shutter 50 instead of anything else. Besides, the video camera is a creative tool and I don't see how users can give up controlling shutter speed and DOF. It sounds crazy to me to film an entire movie at shutter speed 50. I film 50 sometimes, other times 300, or whatever pleases me, and in CF25 it works just fine.

The compression part. HDV compression is very high. If you have lots of detail everywhere in the scene, the compression will have to sacrifice some quality. If you have a somewhat uniform or unfocused background, the compression will work better on your main subject. I didn't run precise tests, but I had the feeling it worked this way in many cases.

Michele Princigalli
 
Interesting. Subjectively, I think my experience from testing is in agreement with yours, Michele. I will have a look at pushing the shutter speed beyond 50 - it's something I never really considered - crazy really, when it's the practical way to control DOF. Have you heard the expression: "The proof of the pudding is in the eating"?

Anybody else have a take on this?

This helpful, bourbonst61?
 
I find your replies to be very helpful. I think I have seen enough evidence here and looking around the forum that the FX-1e is not going to be too much of a problem, and I am leaning towards using the CF25 feature as it technically sounds like the better way to go.

Princigalli, I am very interested in seeing your samples if you could be so kind as to offer them for us.

As a side note, I am planning on investing in an M2 adaptor and a Canon EOS-based zoom lense so I am quite anxious to get out there with this baby and do some testing.
 
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