FS7: Filming SLOG 3 at night with the FS7.
- Thread starter Amadou
- Start date
Best option= Morgans' = Slog 2 Slog3 and Custom. Even filming in moonlight gets good results
Suggested option= Full auto mode and fix the rest in post. Davinci Resolve has excellent noise reduction.
That's interesting and surprising. Why should Custom Slog function any better than Cine EI in low light? Aside from being able to white balance it should be the same noise and exposure issues wouldn't it.
I would think the problem is that just not enough pixels are being used to get a healthy exposure .
I was wondering if shooting Slog and recording the LUT would be a better way of getting a cleaner image, though of course you are losing the ability to color correct as much and low light situations are less likely to fit into 32, 43 or 5600 slots. In Custom you could white balance it but can't record a LUT without a recorder like an Odyssey .
Have you compared Slog vs HG in dark situations?
It is about two years ago I did this, I used Slog 3 Custom and a high ISO. Didn't test any other setting because it worked surprisingly good. Only thing I had to do was give it a bit of contrast in post.
I was told the slog3 Custom is different from the Cine IE Slog3.
I do have the clips somewhere I'll post them here as soon as I can.
I was told the slog3 Custom is different from the Cine IE Slog3.
I do have the clips somewhere I'll post them here as soon as I can.
You can add gain, that's the reason for using custom, but using SLog2/3 custom is wasteful, uses too many bits for the mostly unused upper part of the recording range where there is little data in a truly dark nighttime scene. Try STD gamma ISO 2500 to record a clean low noise nighttime image, with NR med or high.
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This is the footage. 4K slog3 Custom and high ISO. Very bright moon. With 18-105 F4 sony zoom
https://vimeo.com/289139087
https://vimeo.com/289139087
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Hmmm, Always hard to evaluate an image that's been compressed for the web, but when I go full screen on my Apple 27" monitor I see is that brighter party of the image look fine as do the blacks but the darks ( especially the green grass around 12 sec are absolutely swimming in noise. Is that compression or is it on the footage?
Did you ever try comparing to STD or Hyper Gamma? Not much need for dynamic range in that situation.
Did you ever try comparing to STD or Hyper Gamma? Not much need for dynamic range in that situation.
I guess you are right, now I think of it.
Most of the clips are too bright. The footage at 26 sec shows the light as it was.
I don't mind a bit of noise in night shots, but I think HG7 will do a lot better.
I grabbed a bunch of clips and put them together. No noise reduction no color correction. The clip I finally used was a darker one. The video editor thought people should think it wasn't a night shot but a trick shot.
I used a slow F4 lens, later I tested also with a zuiko 55mm 1.2.
The point is that I was surprised how capable the FS7 is at low light.
Most of the clips are too bright. The footage at 26 sec shows the light as it was.
I don't mind a bit of noise in night shots, but I think HG7 will do a lot better.
I grabbed a bunch of clips and put them together. No noise reduction no color correction. The clip I finally used was a darker one. The video editor thought people should think it wasn't a night shot but a trick shot.
I used a slow F4 lens, later I tested also with a zuiko 55mm 1.2.
The point is that I was surprised how capable the FS7 is at low light.
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I agree. Spend your bits where they are most useful, not spread them across 14 stops when there are so few highlights. Still looks pretty good to me, especially the color.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
That's interesting and surprising. Why should Custom Slog function any better than Cine EI in low light?
Because the signal is given a boost before compression ?
Because the signal is given a boost before compression ?
I guess I'm not aware of that, can you elaborate?
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
As I described in another thread my understanding of the camera is that it works thus..
sensor,
image processor
compression engine
Slog should skip the second stage.
The image processor does bad things like create the sony look (and the paint settings, NR lens correction etc), and some things like apply gain which while unpleasant and bad for DR can have a positive impact on the image in low light.
S
sensor,
image processor
compression engine
Slog should skip the second stage.
The image processor does bad things like create the sony look (and the paint settings, NR lens correction etc), and some things like apply gain which while unpleasant and bad for DR can have a positive impact on the image in low light.
S
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Yes, custom allows you to apply gain to slog to boost the signal into the less compressed part of log range where there are more shades, more steps to differentiate subtle contrasts. And if you use HG9 or STD gamma, there's only custom mode no EI.
You're starting with already a bad circumstance of not enough light to even put the signal into the linear part of the log curve. Paint settings and DR are least of it. Noise creates havoc.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Indeed - hence a loss of colour purity is far outweighed by a reduction of noise - we agree.
Ah - So Slog in Custom is different from raising the EI in Cine EI which is really just the Look, it actually changes the exposure by adding real gain.
BTW - "The image processor does bad things like create the sony look..." just makes me laugh . You and I have been through this one a couple hundred times already but the paint settings don't have to be bad at all if you know how to use them . Just a different way to work. A couple years ago I posted examples of head shots in Slog and Custom and no one got them right. I loved the responses that were certain the Custom shots had to be log.
BTW - "The image processor does bad things like create the sony look..." just makes me laugh . You and I have been through this one a couple hundred times already but the paint settings don't have to be bad at all if you know how to use them . Just a different way to work. A couple years ago I posted examples of head shots in Slog and Custom and no one got them right. I loved the responses that were certain the Custom shots had to be log.
Amadou
Carbonite Member
Realistically speaking one could change from Cine Ei to custom during a production but in reality this is highly unlikely to happen insofar as one does not want to modify the workings of the camera half way through a production. I have gotten used to not having the Iris or white ballance. All I use is the manual lens aperture, manual focus and the ND knob. While I try to look a Zebras, I mostly stick with 800 Iso and avoid trying to be too far over or under. When light is poor, I open the lens to its highest and if the image looks good on the monitor I just go with it. Meanwhile, if there is too much light, I raise the ND and set aperture so that the image looks fine and does not say "too much light". Insofar as most of my actors are black, their faces will not hit zebras a easily as white actors. In the end I mostly trust my monitor and the 709 Lut. Having worked previously with an EX1 with Letus adaptor, I consider the FS7 a major step up in sensitivity. However by using SLOG 3 cine I have essentially taken a leap into the unknown. What worries me mist is grain in low light situations. This said, the images look great in the FS7 viewfinder. I take this opportunity to say that posts which tell me I should have tested the camera in all its settings or I should have more knowledge about the camera before using it are totally pointless insofar as they offer no useable advice whatsoever. I believe forums exist to answer questions, not to blame people. And I also find the condescending attitudes of some who keep assuming others are incompetent very annoying. I suggest only those who have constructive advice to give respond. The others should refrain from pointless sarcasm and unproductive personnal attacks. Thank you.
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Or get yourself lights!