Filming Minors and legal issues

offbeatbryce said:
I work for a non profit organization that has asked me to film kids in a shopping mall during Christmas because they are doing a documentary film on a guy being santa clause who happens to have special needs.
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So if you get permission from the mall, work out liability insurance (which they may insist on if you're working around mall visitors, esp kids), and all that...

I'm thinking lots of parents might hesitate to sign a release just to have their kids see Santa. As in: recording all this the right way may end up limiting the number of kids Santa gets to greet.

So maybe an idea that would work would be to line up some kids ahead of time (say, a kindergarten or Sunday School class that you have a connection to) and coordinate with them ahead of time to visit Santa. You'd still need releases, but you'd have time to make a case about how the recordings will be used and parents would have time to opt in, and you'd have a solid list of kids you could record.

Then let the mall know that you only want to record for a one-hour period when the kids from that pre-cleared group shows up. There would still be permision and probably insurance issues (the nonprofit might be able to get the mall covered under their event liability insurance), but the whole exposure time would be limited, you wouldn't have as many upset parents, and you could probably get nice and close to the kids & Santa and get some great stuff with minimal hassle. Then as soon as your group of kids is done, break down and leave.

It's the sort of compromise, plan b (and c and d and...) that's common in production.


Just an idea but if the mall balks, you could come back with something simpler and shorter that might make them say OK...
 
I like Jim's idea. Populate the crowd with pre approved kids. Everyone above has given you good advice. Consider it carefully. And at a minimum, get at least half the shoot/edit price up front, before you start. With this client's behavior so far, I see all sorts of problems getting paid in your future.
 
Is this a paid job?...if it is, shoot after hours with a small cast keeping things narrow...you will need mall permission, security for the mall and of course all the necessary releases and liability insurance...treat it as what it is....a small narrative piece...with the attitude of the head of the organization, get a retainer for at least all the expenses you have to incur in the making of the piece, and then deliver a water marked copy for his/her approval, the unmarked copy being delivered after full payment is received. If not a paid job, walk away...the scope of a project like this is far too big to do pro bono.
 
offbeatbryce said:
To be clear I'm not doing this for my business but for the non profit organization that is paying me as I work for them making videos. My business is my own thing for other videos but not this project in the mall.
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To clarify, does this mean that you are an employee of the non-profit? And you're worried about losing your job if you refuse the task?

If so, leave a paper trail, and simply tell them you can't do it without all the legal requirements in place. Make sure you get everything in writing and save offline backups of the discussion, that way you're protected if HR becomes involved.

If you're a contractor/freelancer, simply walk away.
 
offbeatbryce said:
...I'm not doing this for my business but for the non profit organization that is paying me as I work for them making videos. My business is my own thing for other videos but not this project in the mall.
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There are several principles here:

(1) There is a difference between a publicly-owned space (e.g, highway, sidewalk, etc) and a privately owned space where the public is allowed access (e.g, shopping mall). In general (in the US) you can take photos/video with few restrictions in publicly-owned areas.

(2) Private property owners can set policies (within limits) for conduct on their property. That might include no photography, or no commercial photography, or no photography with removable-lens camera, or only hand-held photography without tripods or lights.

(3) There is a difference between paid work for a non-profit entity vs totally non-commercial photography. Your example is the former. The latter could include a school student studying insects for biology class and who shoots 5 sec of iPhone video of a rare bug walking across the floor at a shopping mall. Something like this: https://bddf794624247cea6a0b-b4761d...reenshot-2017-11-16-16-31-471510872225153.png

Most shopping malls do not want the bad publicity of kicking someone out who takes a cell phone photo of their own child's first taste of cotton candy in the food court. Thus many of them only prohibit *commercial* photography.

This obviously raises the issue of where is the threshold. What if a high school student uses an iPhone 8 Plus on a gimbal to shoot 10 sec of wide-angle crowd material in a mall for a class journalism project about last minute Christmas shopping? What if the same 10 sec of non-commercial student material was shot with a DVX200? If the policy is cell phone only, what if the student shot 8k video using a Red Hydrogen One cell phone, does that make a difference? https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...d-holographic-hydrogen-one-phone-fcc-approval

However those are all clearly non-commercial -- there is no payment, no compensation, no pecuniary interest whatsoever. The OP case is paid commercial work for a non-profit entity. Such work may have a noble goal but it's unauthorized commercial work taking place on private property. In essence it's little different than setting up a commercial portrait photo kiosk in the mall without permission.
 
Jim Feeley said:
So if you get permission from the mall, work out liability insurance (which they may insist on if you're working around mall visitors, esp kids), and all that...

I'm thinking lots of parents might hesitate to sign a release just to have their kids see Santa. As in: recording all this the right way may end up limiting the number of kids Santa gets to greet.

So maybe an idea that would work would be to line up some kids ahead of time (say, a kindergarten or Sunday School class that you have a connection to) and coordinate with them ahead of time to visit Santa. You'd still need releases, but you'd have time to make a case about how the recordings will be used and parents would have time to opt in, and you'd have a solid list of kids you could record.

Then let the mall know that you only want to record for a one-hour period when the kids from that pre-cleared group shows up. There would still be permision and probably insurance issues (the nonprofit might be able to get the mall covered under their event liability insurance), but the whole exposure time would be limited, you wouldn't have as many upset parents, and you could probably get nice and close to the kids & Santa and get some great stuff with minimal hassle. Then as soon as your group of kids is done, break down and leave.

It's the sort of compromise, plan b (and c and d and...) that's common in production.


Just an idea but if the mall balks, you could come back with something simpler and shorter that might make them say OK...
Click to expand...

I recommended that last week and the person hiring me said "Just film anyone. It's public" GOOD GRIEF!
 
offbeatbryce said:
I recommended that last week and the person hiring me said "Just film anyone. It's public" GOOD GRIEF!
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Walk away. NOW.

You have been given solid advice by several people that know that you cannot just walk into a mall and shoot video for a commercial production. But it appears that you are still involved with/attempting this project, even after being told what you need to do and informing the client of the same and the client still seems to not care.

You know, you can only tell a kid so many times don't touch the stove while it's hot or you'll burn your hands. Some kids have to learn the hard way. I just hope you have good insurance, because I think you're going to be one of those kids that burns their finger prints off.
 
Run Forest, run!
Seriously, If they are making a doc and they don't know this type of stuff, then they really don't know what they are doing. Run from this project as fast as you can...seriously.
 
Sometimes, it's just the right thing to do - just say no. In fact, as somebody who rarely follows even my own advice, there will be times when you are prone to winging it - and these are always the gigs where it goes wrong. NEVER trust other people is a good motto. Tell them you trust them, but always check. one year, we were using lots of pyro, and a few days into the production I had a visit by the Police, who wanted to see the licence, which we turned out not to have. It came close to being arrested, but I managed to convince them it was an oversight and all was well. Next year, same venue again, so I checked with the production company and asked them if it was sorted, because I really didn't fancy being arrested for certain. they assured me three times in emails over the preceding months all was sorted. I dropped the Explosive's Officer a note who assured me there was NOT a licence application or licence - and he issued it direct to me. The office still maintained all was well. Turned out they thought I was worrying about nothing and there was no requirement for a licence, but had just told me it was sorted to pacify me and stop me constantly going on about it.

One job in the planning is a repeat. I've told the organisation that yes, I will do it again, for the same fee - BUT - they must make sure that the person who knows how to programme the lighting is present. The last two shows were terrible because the lighting desk was pre-programmed (badly) and locked with a PIN, and the guy wasn't on that evening. Great video with the singers in silhouette and the star of the show being the drummer! The only well lit person on stage.
 
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