Film Festival for early (i.e., pre-ARRI Alexa) digital cinema cameras

[drboffa]

Is anyone aware of film festivals that cater exclusively to projects shot on older digital cameras? I mentioned "pre Alexa" in the title because that seems to have been the turning point in digital acquisition, whereby digital became indistinguishable from film (in the right hands) or even superior to it in some ways (per Roger Deakins).

In the past there was RESfest (1996-2006), and while that documents some amazing pioneers in digital cinema it was doing so for contemporary cameras, rather than ones that were out of date.

Given how many people are still embracing older cameras—from consumer grade stuff up to things like the F35—it seems like there would be an outlet for this. We're also far removed enough from those early days that I have to imagine a growing nostalgia for the look of early digital cinema (I certainly have it).

While this isn't specifically F35 related this sub is probably among the most active on these forums, and Sony CineAlta was perhaps the most important player in the digital realm before the Alexa, hence why I'm posting it here.

 

[DIRECTORDEVIN]

I've never heard of such a festival, but I can certainly see how awesome that would be. These older cameras are amazing technology, at this point I'll watch anything f35 lol. If you ever find such a festival please report back here.

 

[Mike Krumlauf]

There were a few festivals in the mid 2000s that catered to Mini DV Filmmaking, but digital filmmaking as a whole I have no idea.

 

[drboffa]

I've never heard of such a festival, but I can certainly see how awesome that would be. These older cameras are amazing technology, at this point I'll watch anything f35 lol. If you ever find such a festival please report back here.

Wouldn't it be great? At least to me—and I imagine to the small but devoted group of people who still love these cameras. And yeah, at this point if I see that a film has been shot on an early digital camera I'm pretty keen to watch it regardless of what it is.

I haven't found anything, but I'll keep you and others posted. It'd even be nice just to have an online repository or playlist of things.

 

[drboffa]

There were a few festivals in the mid 2000s that catered to Mini DV Filmmaking, but digital filmmaking as a whole I have no idea.

If anyone would know I figured you'd be among them; thanks for the response. I'll keep digging...

Also—unrelated—but on the topic of your F900R: have you seen "Me and You and Everyone We Know"? I just rewatched it recently and noticed it was shot on the F900 (I didn't know this going in but a few shots made me look into it); I think it looks amazing, and is well worth checking out if you haven't already. I don't know the differences between the F900 and the F900R, but the movie is a great example of using the camera in varied lighting situations in a way that always looks natural. It's also a fantastic film (not for everyone, though).

 

[DIRECTORDEVIN]

Just watched me and you and everyone we know and it was seriously an amazing film. So much heart went into that. Thanks for sharing that.

If anyone would know I figured you'd be among them; thanks for the response. I'll keep digging...

Also—unrelated—but on the topic of your F900R: have you seen "Me and You and Everyone We Know"? I just rewatched it recently and noticed it was shot on the F900 (I didn't know this going in but a few shots made me look into it); I think it looks amazing, and is well worth checking out if you haven't already. I don't know the differences between the F900 and the F900R, but the movie is a great example of using the camera in varied lighting situations in a way that always looks natural. It's also a fantastic film (not for everyone, though).

 

[drboffa]

Just watched me and you and everyone we know and it was seriously an amazing film. So much heart went into that. Thanks for sharing that.

My pleasure! I'm so glad you watched and enjoyed it. I first saw it way back in 2007 and it really stuck with me. Rewatched it a couple nights ago now that it's on Criterion and I was blown away again. For such a spare film (with a budget of only $800K, apparently) it is really powerful. Also there are some really great performances all around, and (as I mentioned earlier) I think it looks fantastic. Miranda July (the director) talks about how people at the time lamented how her limited budget meant she couldn't shoot on film, and to her that was a total non-issue, as she was only used to shooting video for her art and performance pieces. She's very open about how she had no preciousness or anything about "shooting film", which is great.

 

[Guest]

If any of you make this film fest happen, count me in.

 

[drboffa]

If any of you make this film fest happen, count me in.

I'll keep you (and others) posted if anything comes of this. It certainly has never been my intention to start a film fest, especially in the midst of a pandemic. But maybe something virtual and very informal is a reasonable way to start. In any event, I'll post updates if/when I have them (and I hope others do, as well).

 

[DIRECTORDEVIN]

Yeah I watched all of that criterion stuff as well, Miranda really intrigued me and her acting sensitivity was captivating. I also love (as you mentioned) her not being affected by technology, it’s taken me years to finally let all of that stuff go and focus on telling stories instead of pixels lol. I’m almost there just have to not know as much as I know while also being ok with knowing it and moving on. That’s a mouthful, but I’m sure you understand.

My pleasure! I'm so glad you watched and enjoyed it. I first saw it way back in 2007 and it really stuck with me. Rewatched it a couple nights ago now that it's on Criterion and I was blown away again. For such a spare film (with a budget of only $800K, apparently) it is really powerful. Also there are some really great performances all around, and (as I mentioned earlier) I think it looks fantastic. Miranda July (the director) talks about how people at the time lamented how her limited budget meant she couldn't shoot on film, and to her that was a total non-issue, as she was only used to shooting video for her art and performance pieces. She's very open about how she had no preciousness or anything about "shooting film", which is great.

 

[Mike Krumlauf]

If anyone would know I figured you'd be among them; thanks for the response. I'll keep digging...

Also—unrelated—but on the topic of your F900R: have you seen "Me and You and Everyone We Know"? I just rewatched it recently and noticed it was shot on the F900 (I didn't know this going in but a few shots made me look into it); I think it looks amazing, and is well worth checking out if you haven't already. I don't know the differences between the F900 and the F900R, but the movie is a great example of using the camera in varied lighting situations in a way that always looks natural. It's also a fantastic film (not for everyone, though).

Yeah, I saw the film when it first came out at an indie theater in Chicago. Knew about its use of the F900 and Final Cut. It is a fantastic film, I own the recently released criterion blu ray and it looks beautiful.

In terms of the differences between the 900 and 900R its quite severe from body to image. The image is much cleaner, robost IMO even when shooting on HDCAM tape which I do. The added benifit of the body itself being much lighter with built in HD SDI is a big plus. the 900R is a far superior camera from the 900.

 

[drboffa]

Very interesting. Any reason why you shoot to tape instead of a recorder?

And for those of you interested in another F900 film (that is quite good), I just watched the 2004 Chinese film "The World," which was shot with that camera. I didn't know it going in but had some suspicions within the first five or ten minutes. I'm not someone who's super sharp at spotting certain cameras, but I do feel like I'm starting to see an F900 "look": generally deeper depth of field, a little hint of softness in darker areas, and a certain subtle aspect of motion blur that seems particular to this camera.

 

[tull_power]

Would the Sony F35 / Panavision Genesis count as pre Arri Alexa? There are a ton of A-list movies shot with that camera, and they all look gorgeous. There's also 28 Days later, shot on a Canon XL1 by the already established Boyle.... looks very dated nowadays, wondering if feeding the original DV tape footage to modern deinterlacing software and upscaling it would make it look any better. If I remember correctly the DP pioneered using small miniDV cameras unrigged, handheld and following actors closely.... so he probably advocated for a similar approach. He ended up using a similar setup in Slum Billionaire, but with a far better IQ - can't remember which camera was used. But he was a master of filming handheld unaided.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCdRFMp8Xwo

There's also Arri's own D-20 and D-21 which preceeded the Alexa, Rock n'Rolla was shot on the D-20, definitely looks quite good when you consider it was 2005!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdpR8VuvbCM

Is it just Cinema grade cameras you'd admit in this festival or also any camcorder? Still have a 3CCD SD1 somewhere - and it had a very distinctive look, might unearth it after reading this thread and getting all nostalgic!

 

[drboffa]

Would the Sony F35 / Panavision Genesis count as pre Arri Alexa? There are a ton of A-list movies shot with that camera, and they all look gorgeous. There's also 28 Days later, shot on a Canon XL1 by the already established Boyle.... looks very dated nowadays, wondering if feeding the original DV tapes in a modern deinterlacer and upscaling it would make it look better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCdRFMp8Xwo

There's also Arri's own D-20 and D-21 which preceeded the Alexa, Rock n'Rolla was shot on the D-20, definitely looks quite good when you consider it was 2005!

Is it just Cinema grade cameras you'd admit in this festival or also any camcorder? Still have a 3CCD SD1 somewhere - and it had a very distinctive look, might unearth it after reading this thread and getting all nostalgic!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdpR8VuvbCM

I would absolutely count the Sony F35. It was released in 2008, a couple years before the Alexa. I'd even include the Sony F3, which was released 2010 (the same year the Alexa was announced).

Really I'd be thrilled to see any camcorder/video camera used, regardless of whether it was cinema/pro/prosumer/consumer. My (admittedly arbitrary) ideal would be a festival built around the unique visual characteristics of early video cameras, whether single chip or 3CCD. I'd also be keen to have early tube cameras included, such as were used in the film "Computer Chess," for example.

 

[tull_power]

Excellent idea - I think a lot of artists and filmmakers would take part. Several of these cameras are now available for a small fraction of what they used to cost- and as you've rightly said, they have a very unique feel to them. The F3 was used for some Indie film, and goes for a less then a grand on ebay, even with the 444bit upgrade. Nowadays, the Blackmagic cameras (particularly the Fairchild sensor ones) offer the best bang for the buck while having a very distinctive picture / image.

 

[El Director]

I have my first feature, Wulf, up on YouTube. It's an unlisted video because it was a horror film and I don't do that kind of stuff anymore, but I'd be willing to share here if anyone was interested. We shot it in the summer of 2007 on a MiniDV camera I bought from Best Buy in 2003. Budget for the film was $600, but I was 22 and very proud at the time that I had made a feature film. I kept a production diary that someone should be able to find here on these forums. I think my first posts on here were copying and pasting the journal to the forum.

Anyway, that's a long way of saying that it's nowhere near a Hollywood production, but I'd be willing to submit for laughs.

 

[drboffa]

I have my first feature, Wulf, up on YouTube. It's an unlisted video because it was a horror film and I don't do that kind of stuff anymore, but I'd be willing to share here if anyone was interested. We shot it in the summer of 2007 on a MiniDV camera I bought from Best Buy in 2003. Budget for the film was $600, but I was 22 and very proud at the time that I had made a feature film. I kept a production diary that someone should be able to find here on these forums. I think my first posts on here were copying and pasting the journal to the forum.

Anyway, that's a long way of saying that it's nowhere near a Hollywood production, but I'd be willing to submit for laughs.

You should share it! That kind of stuff is awesome. I'm thinking that in the short term maybe just a website would be feasible: i.e., a place to gather examples of people shooting on older digital cameras (everything from hobbyist to amateur to pro), as well as to highlight examples of early pioneers in digital cinema (like early adopters of the F900).

 

[El Director]

You should share it! That kind of stuff is awesome. I'm thinking that in the short term maybe just a website would be feasible: i.e., a place to gather examples of people shooting on older digital cameras (everything from hobbyist to amateur to pro), as well as to highlight examples of early pioneers in digital cinema (like early adopters of the F900).

I think that a website is a great idea! Or even a YT playlist. I love watching early digital work, Hollywood or Indie.

Okay, here it is. We shot it with this camera:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cDrckjAM5zvqjaQK9


Edited in Vegas 5 or 7, and we did ADR for everything. It's bad. Really bad. Lots of language, a little blood. I feel like the story has potential, but I have no desire to go back to it right now. The most interesting thing about this film is that I was able to cast the great-niece of Rita Hayworth. The girl even looks a bit like her too.
Movie starts off slow. Takes around 25 minutes to start getting the pacing a bit better (minus a minute of hiking down a mountain later on - seriously, skip ahead)

Anyway, here it goes:

 

[drboffa]

I think that a website is a great idea! Or even a YT playlist. I love watching early digital work, Hollywood or Indie.

Okay, here it is. We shot it with this camera:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cDrckjAM5zvqjaQK9


Edited in Vegas 5 or 7, and we did ADR for everything. It's bad. Really bad. Lots of language, a little blood. I feel like the story has potential, but I have no desire to go back to it right now. The most interesting thing about this film is that I was able to cast the great-niece of Rita Hayworth. The girl even looks a bit like her too.
Movie starts off slow. Takes around 25 minutes to start getting the pacing a bit better (minus a minute of hiking down a mountain later on - seriously, skip ahead)

Anyway, here it goes:

So I only watched about 10-15 minutes of this, but the ethos behind what you and your crew were doing is awesome. And I really appreciate the video look and the scenes in near total darkness, lit only by the fire (or that's how it seems). I'll take an underexposed nighttime shot in near total darkness almost any day over classical Hollywood "nighttime" lighting.

Also, the ADR is surprisingly good! Certainly better than I've heard on plenty of big budget films.

I'm still just toying with this but I do love the idea of a site that gathers all these early experiments in digital video, from amateur to professional. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Mike Krumlauf]

Would the Sony F35 / Panavision Genesis count as pre Arri Alexa? There are a ton of A-list movies shot with that camera, and they all look gorgeous. There's also 28 Days later, shot on a Canon XL1 by the already established Boyle.... looks very dated nowadays, wondering if feeding the original DV tape footage to modern deinterlacing software and upscaling it would make it look any better. If I remember correctly the DP pioneered using small miniDV cameras unrigged, handheld and following actors closely.... so he probably advocated for a similar approach. He ended up using a similar setup in Slum Billionaire, but with a far better IQ - can't remember which camera was used. But he was a master of filming handheld unaided.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCdRFMp8Xwo

There's also Arri's own D-20 and D-21 which preceeded the Alexa, Rock n'Rolla was shot on the D-20, definitely looks quite good when you consider it was 2005!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdpR8VuvbCM

Is it just Cinema grade cameras you'd admit in this festival or also any camcorder? Still have a 3CCD SD1 somewhere - and it had a very distinctive look, might unearth it after reading this thread and getting all nostalgic!

28 days later was shot with PAL XL1 cameras in its frame movie mode using Canon HD-EC Prime B4 lenses and the optex XL to B4 adapter. Camera was also in 4:3 mode and they matted for widescreen, so, if you find a 4:3 version, maybe on a VHS you will be seeing the entire signal of the camera but not what the filmmakers intented the ratio to be of course. For "Slumdog Millionare" they used a mixture of 35mm and the SI-2K camera hooked to computers in backpacks for mobility.

I capture my old Mini DV tapes from the early/mid 2000s on a Panasonic AJ-HD1400 via HD SDI and it captures as 1080psf/23.98 and looks beautiful! Best the tapes have looked!

Heres an example. Footage was shot by me in 2007 on a Canon XL2 and custom Anamorphic Lens and I captured the tape raw and re cut the footage.