File Names on FS100 and Clipwrap

[taubkin]

So, Every card I take to clip wrap generates the same clip numbers, always starting in 00001. That means I can't get several cards of a same project and go through clip wrap, because I have to rename them card y card, using an automated software.

It's very annoying. I don't want to go through the slow and annoying FCP Log and Transfer, since I get my proxies made by the much faster MPG streamclip. Is there an option in camera to make the file names always different, even when changing cards? Or are the filenames something done afterwards by clip wrap?

 

[Doug Jensen]

I don't use Clip Wrap because I don't think it performs very well on my computer, so I can't answer your question about file naming there. But, I can tell you for sure there is no way change the automated file naming that the camera gives each clip. To makes worse, as I point out in my FS100 training DVD, it is very easy to end up with different names for the same clip if you configure your camera to record simultaneously to a memory card and to an optional FMU.
http://www.vortexmedia.com/DVD_FS100.html

 

[Kraut69]

Glad to see that you are part of this forum, Doug, welcome! Please push Sony for the FS-100 firmware updates suggested here!

 

[Dermot]

I don't use Clip Wrap because I don't think it performs very well on my computer, t
http://www.vortexmedia.com/DVD_FS100.html

Clipwrap flies through footage on my MacBookPro, takes no longer to re-wrap and Xfer to an external drive than it does to do a straight copy to the same drive.

That said, on to the issue at hand.. maybe try to record a few seconds of bars at the start of useing a card, put the card in your computer, re-name, and drop back into the camera, it may well just keep on numbering the next clips higher...

Should note that i edit with Avid systems, so no need for proxie workflows

d

 

[MattDavis]

FWIW, this behaviour (sequential file naming) is part of the deal with AVCHD and its purported compatibility with BluRay players. The process will go to many lengths to build a valid BluRay file structure.

If you choose, for example, to back up a couple of cards onto a USB disk or thumb drive connected to the camera, with shots 0 to 15 (thank you, computers) and 0 - 10 on another card, shots will be named 0 to 26 on the backup (did you follow the math there?). So the thoughtful concept of copying rushes onto a thumb drive for your client ensures that neither of you can use file names to refer to a desired shot.

I am now (blush) using FCP-X as my editor of choice for FS100 work, which is both quick and manages file naming behind the scenes. A somewhat cavalier approach for me in the past has been to use Renamer4Mac to batch rename clips that were wrapped or transcoded with ClipWrap. However, I'm pretty sure that rids you of all camera metadata (including the GPS info which I'd really like to have available in the editor). OTOH, FCP-X does have a 'camera archive' function for AVCHD ingest (which I am yet to test for remains of camera metadata).

And +1 on Doug's comment below - we have truly been spoiled by the XDCAM workflow...

 

[Doug Jensen]

Clipwrap flies through footage on my MacBookPro, takes no longer to re-wrap and Xfer to an external drive than it does to do a straight copy to the same drive.
d

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about how much time takes to re-wrap and transfer, I'm talking about how sluggish the clips playback on a XDCAM timeline in FCP.
The FS100 has a lot of great things going for it, but when it comes to custom clip naming and the overall workflow, it is vastly inferior to XDCAM and takes a lot more time and attention -- that is if you care about managing, archiving, and backing-up your files properly. I've been spoiled by XDCAM. Instead of using Clip Wrap, I prefer just to transcode AVCHD to ProRes and get the pain overwith right away. In my experience, ProRes is much easier to deal with than a Clip Wrapped FS100 clip.

 

[taubkin]

I see. So, even if I use MTF as my source media in my proxy workflow, FCP might not be able to reconnect when I try to transcode again my used clips in an online codec? Shouldn't the UB and TC help in those cases?

 

[Dermot]

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about how much time takes to re-wrap and transfer, I'm talking about how sluggish the clips playback on a XDCAM timeline in FCP.
The FS100 has a lot of great things going for it, but when it comes to custom clip naming and the overall workflow, it is vastly inferior to XDCAM and takes a lot more time and attention -- that is if you care about managing, archiving, and backing-up your files properly. I've been spoiled by XDCAM. Instead of using Clip Wrap, I prefer just to transcode AVCHD to ProRes and get the pain overwith right away. In my experience, ProRes is much easier to deal with than a Clip Wrapped FS100 clip.

Suppose it depends upon your edit system of choice, and while your comments on Clipwrap may be valid for your workflow, they are not valid for mine, by extension they are not universal... you might want to add a caveat that your comments only apply if you are working with FC7?


My advice, take it for what it cost ya;
talk about that you know, caveat about what you don't
don't assume a FC7 weakness is universal, chances are it is not
don't assume everyone (or even anyone) is still editing on FC7

YMMV

d

 

[Doug Jensen]

I don't understand what you're getting at. Am I supped to to preface every post I make with disclaimers and caveats? If so, here they are:

"Your results might be different".
"I don't speak for the whole world".
"My opinions are my own and you may not agree."
"All NLE programs handle files differently".
"Clip Wrap may not suck as bad for you, as does for me."


I will try to remember to add some disclaimers to every post because apparently it is not obvious that everyone has different needs, workflows, and opinions. I thought that was a given.

 

[Gary W]

I don't understand what you're getting at. Am I supped to to preface every post I make with disclaimers and caveats? If so, here they are:

"Your results might be different".
"I don't speak for the whole world".
"My opinions are my own and you may not agree."
"All NLE programs handle files differently".
"Clip Wrap may not suck as bad for you, as does for me."


I will try to remember to add some disclaimers to every post because apparently it is not obvious that everyone has different needs, workflows, and opinions. I thought that was a given.

Good Point!

 

[Dermot]

FWIW, this behaviour (sequential file naming) is part of the deal with AVCHD and its purported compatibility with BluRay players. The process will go to many lengths to build a valid BluRay file structure.

I spent a few min trying to find a work around, and failed, but here's what we do with either EX or FS data;
- format cards in the camera every evening after confirming the days data is on three drives
- when backing up make a folder for the show/day/camera/card.. so;
Hue/day 12/A_Ex3/card1/BAPV/
Hue/day 12/B_EX1/card1/BAPV/
Hue/day12/C_FS/card1/

For the EX's we xfer to 3 drives always from the camera card
For the FS we xfer to the same 3 drives, into one we copy the entire folder structure, into the other two we copy & re-wrap into h264 through clipwrap, this takes no significant time longer than the straight file Xfer.

The drive with the entire folder structure gets archived once we are back in town, first of the two drives with the footage goes to editorial, then we only ship the second drive once the first is confirmed as whole and complete & backed up on a LTO tape, the second drive goes to production office for eventual re-cycleing

We AMA the footage in Media Composer, or link in Lightworks and go straight to work pretty much instantly.. i also have a licence of Vegas and it also runs the footage instantly... If there is a reason to transcode ( for example a editor wants to work at home with his laptop) then we use MetaFuze to make MXF media @ 175/8bit.. very quick transcodes

when locked picture we use "Send to DS" from Media Composer and transcode to 175/8bit MXF, in Lightworks we make a AAF, and render to DNx175/8bit and open the AAF in DS, from there it's just another piece of media for gradeing and finshing

So what ever goes on the FC7 land to me seems more likely to be about being stuck on software that is 32 bit & locked to a single proc, but i don't know much about FC, seems that with more modern software and hardware (we have 12 proc's and 24 gig ram on our machines running under 64bit OS's) the bottlenecks are pretty much a thing of the past.

i think Doug is incorrect and basicly unkind when he says the ClipWrap is slow... his workflow maybe slow, but it's the square root of nothing to do with clipwrap, so let's put the blame where it should rest.. FC7

i just don't see where there's any diffrence in archival methodlgy or resources used either... both meet strict bonding agency requirments that we work under, both are identical really.. the LTO is the bond's requirment for archiving, the disk with the orignal FS camera folder structure intact is also archived, the other two disks are recycled for the next project

End game Clipwrap works really well, really FAST and really solid...

Where ever Doug's issues are, they are not with ClipWrap

 

[Doug Jensen]

Where ever Doug's issues are, they are not with ClipWrap.

Of course they are! I don't have any trouble at all within FCP7 with all flavors of XDCAM, DVCAM, Betacam, ProRes, CineForm, DPX, or any other format -- just AVCHD files that have been converted with Clip Wrap. In my experience, it is a poor solution to the problem of using AVCHD within FCP7 on my computers.

I completely understand that ClipWrap may run great for you with your workflow and choice of NLE. I don't doubt that for a second. But I am not incorrect that Clip Wrap is slow on my Macs. How would you know? Care to come over for a visit and see for yourself? Obviously my complaints abut Clip Wrap are related to FCP. Where did I say they weren't? If it wasn't for FCP 7's inability to handle AVCHD properly I wouldn't even have experimented with Clip Wrap at all. But I'm not going to dump FCP7 and change my whole way of doing business just so I can use Clip Wrap. Clip Wrap may be the greatest utility software ever written for some other NLE, but that doesn't do me any good if I don't use that other NLE.

It is not clear to me whether you have even tried Clip Wrap with FCP7? Have you? Because if not, then you really have no idea what you are talking about. If you have tried it and it works for you, great, but it does not work for me. Transcoding to ProRes is the lesser of the two evils on MY computers running FCP7. You can believe it or not, but I'm finished beating this horse.

 

[Erwin Vanderhoydonks]

Hi,
This is what I do...
I use Automator to rename all *.MTS files to the following structure : <CameraName>_<OriginalFileNumber>_EEYY-MM-DD_HHMM.mts
For this results in something like this : NEXFS100_00001_2011-12-21_1543.mts
Then I copy the files to a directory, with the name EEYYMMDD_XX, eg 20111221_01 where the XX is a 'serial number'. So there can be multiple directory for one day.
And these files can be processed by ClipWrap.
I hope this helps...

So, Every card I take to clip wrap generates the same clip numbers, always starting in 00001. That means I can't get several cards of a same project and go through clip wrap, because I have to rename them card y card, using an automated software.

It's very annoying. I don't want to go through the slow and annoying FCP Log and Transfer, since I get my proxies made by the much faster MPG streamclip. Is there an option in camera to make the file names always different, even when changing cards? Or are the filenames something done afterwards by clip wrap?

 

[taubkin]

First of all, everybody, big thanks for the responses!

Hi,
This is what I do...
I use Automator to rename all *.MTS files to the following structure : <CameraName>_<OriginalFileNumber>_EEYY-MM-DD_HHMM.mts
For this results in something like this : NEXFS100_00001_2011-12-21_1543.mts
Then I copy the files to a directory, with the name EEYYMMDD_XX, eg 20111221_01 where the XX is a 'serial number'. So there can be multiple directory for one day.
And these files can be processed by ClipWrap.
I hope this helps...

Yeah, I'm also renaming. The biggest problem in this workflow, is when you, like me, use proxies to edit.

I have a lot of material to go through for one season of a TV show shot absolutely docu-style (with over 10 hours of material per 26 min PGM), so it's impossible to edit with an online codec.

In this case, you have to really trust Clipwrap, because when you lock you image you have to return to the .mov (clipwrapped) files for the online, since those are the files with a corresponding naming structure.

Well, for me, clip wrap has already proven to be not Rock solid and trustworthy as it seemed to be after reading this forum: I get some bugged files after the process. That makes me really nervous, since if the files content has changed a bit, are those files really at the maximum quality to go to post?

Anyway, I'm pretty insecure about this method. I was digging the clip wrap idea so I could get FS-100 footage directly along with my canon workflow, thus the .movs, but I'm considering skipping clip wrap altogether and going the painstakingly slow fcp log and transfer route...

Anyone had any more problems with clipwrap?

So, this naming structure is a little bizarre, but if I go through Log and transfer and make proxies, can I online my material going back to the MTS through the same log and transfer? Does at least FCP understand this naming structure and not confuse one file for the other? I'm intending to change the UB on next shoots to make sure the cards have different names, is that a waste of time?

Cheers!

 

[Ulisse]

I use FCPX and it can handle natively AVCHD clip.
What is better for you, convert the clip in clipwrap or in FCPX?
For best quality I mean.

 

[MattDavis]

With regards to FCPX, I think it's partly a matter of duration and amount of clips. Putting together a quick 2 minute location report or interview with a few cutaways and only primary colour correction may not warrant conversion of all clips to ProRes, so only your Project clips and renders get upped to ProRes upon output.

However, when there are long clips (those 45 minute multi-take interviews), DSLR and AVCHD footage used together, the most rudimentary multicam, and rather more exacting editing with lots of audio edits (hiding the cracks in a difficult response by cutting words and even syllables together and hiding it with a cutaway), overlays, splits and hidden cuts, there's a stickiness - especially on older machines - that really grates when editing. Everything should run as if on well oiled bearings.

And, of course, if you're going to use Motion, AfterEffects, Mocha or whatever, you'll want to transcode to ProRes because of its intra-frame nature.

But yes - I'm grateful for FCP-X's ability to edit native AVCHD files for the quickie stuff (part of the reason why I moved from FCP7 to FCPX)