FF VG900 hands-on !
- Thread starter joe1946
- Start date
Darren Levine
Veteran
i rather like that footage, am interested to see more comparisons of everything off, vs cinematone and soft high key combos
potentially looks possible to get a flattish image
potentially looks possible to get a flattish image
Darren Levine
Veteran
has anyone tried the remote control on the a99 to see if it can be used for the 2x lossless digital zoom in movie mode?
photochris
Well-known member
I'll check that out today and report back.
Darren Levine
Veteran
i'd appreciate that, would help my decision on which one of these beasts to settle on
evilthought
Well-known member
AF will work with LAEA2, but that adapter will work in crop mode only (i.e APSC mode). LAEA3 is the only full-frame adapter, but it's not an SLT adapter. Either there would be no auto focus, or AF would be really slow/CDAF not worth anything. Manual focus with peaking would be faster anyway than CDAF.
The E-mount leses will AF too, but they all are APSC lenses too. They will work in crop mode.
A99 is a better camera if you want AF with Full-frame A-mount lenses.
photochris
Well-known member
Sweet, I've been debating the Rok over getting the ZA 85/1.4, how about a few shots from this lens?
joe1946
Veteran
I will post some here as soon as I shoot some. I am in the area of NJ that lost electric and we have two other houses in NJ that we own and we have been busy taking care of the problems from Sandy. We have a two family house in Ocean Gate NJ that got flooded so I don't have as much time to shoot as I normally would but I know the VG900 will be a great still/video camera.
SteveNunez
Active member
I was all set to go with the VG900 and now with these AF problems with the FF lenses and adapters is just plain crazy- glad I chose the A99 and went with it.
I love the form factor and setup of the VG900 but the dumbing down of it to protect sales of the upper end Sony's is just too restrictive.
For anyone considering the VG900, I urge you to also consider the A99 as well- as it's Sony's flagship camera, they've seemed to equip it with better video capabilities to it's sister camera, the 900....biggest drawback is the non-E mount which means adapting lenses isn't as versatile- but there are still a few adapters that adapt other mounts to A-mount...I'm using mine presently with a Mamiya 50mm f2 M42 lens and the results are stunning.
I love the form factor and setup of the VG900 but the dumbing down of it to protect sales of the upper end Sony's is just too restrictive.
For anyone considering the VG900, I urge you to also consider the A99 as well- as it's Sony's flagship camera, they've seemed to equip it with better video capabilities to it's sister camera, the 900....biggest drawback is the non-E mount which means adapting lenses isn't as versatile- but there are still a few adapters that adapt other mounts to A-mount...I'm using mine presently with a Mamiya 50mm f2 M42 lens and the results are stunning.
Are you sure the digital zoom of the a99 is lossless? I've tried it a few times and I'm pretty sure it's digital - I definitely see a bit more noise. Also, it's a 4x digital zoom, and right around the 3.3 mark it changes drastically. Clear image zoom does not work in video mode at all.
Hmm, well that's a bummer, the SSM focusing on my lens I guess will be wasted. I can't really go with an A99, for the two websites I plan to use this cam with I need very long battery life (I use three FP100 batteries on shoot days), it needs to run for long periods of time sometimes in high heat like direct sunlight, etc. I'm fond of Sony's video cameras as they have never failed me before even when used under duress so I'll make do with manual focus on the VG900.
Darren Levine
Veteran
im not sure at all, the vg900 and vg30 have a "2x lossless zoom" which can be controlled by the zoom rocker and makes it just like you have a zoom lens, one review already said it is indeed lossless or darn close to it. hence im wondering if the a99 has the same feature.
evilthought
Well-known member
A99 should be the same as VG900. After all, A99 shoots 11 MP RAW stills in APSC crop mode.
From testing the VG900, I think the camera performs a 2-step sampling/downconversion in video mode.
(1) First it creates a high resolution downsampled image (smaller than the full 6000 pixels, but larger than 1920 HD).
But the image can contain bad aliasing/artifacts in some situations, for example straight lines/edges.
Which suggests that it's not reading all the pixels in video mode.
This is the image that you see in the viewfinder.
(2) During recording, it performs another downconversion of the image from step (1) to HD (1920x1080).
When you use the digital zoom with the zoom rocker, or use an APS-C lens, it takes a crop of the image from step (1).
Using the digital zoom to with the zoom rocker 1.5X on a full frame lens is exactly the same as the APS-C crop mode.
With the zoom rocker, you can do a smooth zoom anywhere from 1.0X to 2.0x on a full frame lens, or 1.5X to 3.0x effective on an APS-C lens.
Because it's taking a crop of from an already downsampled image (which itself already contains artifacts),
the resolution will suffer as you zoom (or if you use an APS-C lens), and the aliasing or any artifacts are only magnified.
Note that this different from the tele-crop mode of the Panasonic GH2, which is a fixed 2.6 crop of the of the sensor area, and only the pixels
within that area are used, and this area happens to have 1920 pixels so there's no downconversion needed.
Also this is different from the Canon and Panasonic GH cameras -- in those cameras, when you zoom in on the image BEFORE recording, you see the pixel by pixel image before any downconversion, so the image is very sharp and you can see fine details with no aliasing.
And when you hit record, that's when it downconverts the image, with each camera doing the conversion in a different way:
5D2- suffers from aliasing
GH2- sharp image with minimal aliasing
5D3- image looks soft but no aliasing, although it may be OK after sharpening in post
With the VG900, you can see in the EVF exactly what will be recorded and if it will have any aliasing or artifacts, before and during recording -- what you see is what you get.
Curiously, in photo mode, what you see in the viewfinder is similar to what you see in video mode, with aliasing/moire artifacts. But of course when you hit the photo button the actual RAW/JPG still image uses all the 24M pixels without the artifacts.
I would only buy this camera for one reason -- the ability to adapt full-frame lenses without cropping, including the Leica/Zeiss/Voightlander M-mount lenses which are much smaller than SLR lenses, with the knowledge that it can suffer from aliasing/moire artifacts in certain (but not all) situations. I would only use the digital zoom feature in situations where there's very minimal or no aliasing/artifacts.
And I will bring the small GH2 (which has minimal or no aliasing) as backup.
And I can use the same lenses on both cameras -- I'll just need to bring one extra lens to cover the wide angle because of the 2X crop on the GH2, such as the small Olympus 12mm f/2 micro 4/3 lens.
(1) First it creates a high resolution downsampled image (smaller than the full 6000 pixels, but larger than 1920 HD).
But the image can contain bad aliasing/artifacts in some situations, for example straight lines/edges.
Which suggests that it's not reading all the pixels in video mode.
This is the image that you see in the viewfinder.
(2) During recording, it performs another downconversion of the image from step (1) to HD (1920x1080).
When you use the digital zoom with the zoom rocker, or use an APS-C lens, it takes a crop of the image from step (1).
Using the digital zoom to with the zoom rocker 1.5X on a full frame lens is exactly the same as the APS-C crop mode.
With the zoom rocker, you can do a smooth zoom anywhere from 1.0X to 2.0x on a full frame lens, or 1.5X to 3.0x effective on an APS-C lens.
Because it's taking a crop of from an already downsampled image (which itself already contains artifacts),
the resolution will suffer as you zoom (or if you use an APS-C lens), and the aliasing or any artifacts are only magnified.
Note that this different from the tele-crop mode of the Panasonic GH2, which is a fixed 2.6 crop of the of the sensor area, and only the pixels
within that area are used, and this area happens to have 1920 pixels so there's no downconversion needed.
Also this is different from the Canon and Panasonic GH cameras -- in those cameras, when you zoom in on the image BEFORE recording, you see the pixel by pixel image before any downconversion, so the image is very sharp and you can see fine details with no aliasing.
And when you hit record, that's when it downconverts the image, with each camera doing the conversion in a different way:
5D2- suffers from aliasing
GH2- sharp image with minimal aliasing
5D3- image looks soft but no aliasing, although it may be OK after sharpening in post
With the VG900, you can see in the EVF exactly what will be recorded and if it will have any aliasing or artifacts, before and during recording -- what you see is what you get.
Curiously, in photo mode, what you see in the viewfinder is similar to what you see in video mode, with aliasing/moire artifacts. But of course when you hit the photo button the actual RAW/JPG still image uses all the 24M pixels without the artifacts.
I would only buy this camera for one reason -- the ability to adapt full-frame lenses without cropping, including the Leica/Zeiss/Voightlander M-mount lenses which are much smaller than SLR lenses, with the knowledge that it can suffer from aliasing/moire artifacts in certain (but not all) situations. I would only use the digital zoom feature in situations where there's very minimal or no aliasing/artifacts.
And I will bring the small GH2 (which has minimal or no aliasing) as backup.
And I can use the same lenses on both cameras -- I'll just need to bring one extra lens to cover the wide angle because of the 2X crop on the GH2, such as the small Olympus 12mm f/2 micro 4/3 lens.
I just got my gear, you were right it does indeed auto focus but it's slow. if you hold down the photo button it will grind away for a couple of seconds and then focus (with the Zeiss 24mm f2.0). It's of no use for continuous focus, but I can still use it to quickly get a baseline focus and then switch to manual focus to tweak. That works for me for this particular website I was going to use it for as that's what I had planned to do anyways, quickly auto focus the scene then switch to manual, tweak and record.
So if I wanted to take advantage of PDAF on the VG900, would all the e-mount lenses get me that or are there only some e-mount lenses that will allow the camera to use PDAF? After playing around with this camera I'm thinking of using it on another website, however fast and accurate continuous af is a must for that one, manual focus would never work. I'm just not clear on what's required of the lens to be able to support PDAF. The manual says PDAF is used when a compatible lens is attached, but doesn't go on to say which lenses are compatible.
photochris
Well-known member
You'll get good AF with E-mount lenses or you can go the LAEA2 with A-mount lenses - both with force you to work in crop mode. I have the 50/1.8 and it does a decent job on the FS100 and Nex5n, with the AF improvements Sony made to its newest generation the AF is supposed to be greatly improved.