felliniesque film
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filmman
Veteran
I also like the bizarre scenes in my felliniesque movie THE RED QUEEN.
Here is Devin De La Paz doing her thing on Hollywood Boulevard in front of the whole world. The music is by Malcolm MacFarlane of Scotland. Thanks to Myspace I get my music from all over the world. Malcolm is a fantastic composer and musician.
Here is Devin De La Paz doing her thing on Hollywood Boulevard in front of the whole world. The music is by Malcolm MacFarlane of Scotland. Thanks to Myspace I get my music from all over the world. Malcolm is a fantastic composer and musician.
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
From the man that gives us ten minute trailers we get 3 minutes of AFM footage! Dagnabit! More AFM please! You give shoot as much of this as possible. This is so informational. I enjoyed the three minutes I saw. Loved the Jim Brown "cameo". LOL. By the way, your new site is looking very good. Are you getting more sales on your book?
-Nate
filmman
Veteran
I'll try to post a few more clips on the AFM today. I'm selling a few more books after you did the artwork. I have to figure out how to drive more traffic to my websites. I'm trying Twitter, but I have a feeling I need some sort of program to get the traffic up.
Here is another frame grab from THE RED QUEEN.
Here is another frame grab from THE RED QUEEN.
Chamber005
Carbonite Member
I'll try to post a few more clips on the AFM today. I'm selling a few more books after you did the artwork. I have to figure out how to drive more traffic to my websites. I'm trying Twitter, but I have a feeling I need some sort of program to get the traffic up.
Here is another frame grab from THE RED QUEEN.
Have you tried Facebook ads? I used them for a week and got about 200 new "fans" of my webseries from it. I haven't used it since (going to use it again once I release the 3rd ep).
If you care to know, here's the skinny:
You can either buy cost-per-click ads (usually about 50 cents a pop during the week. Bid goes higher on the weekend)
Or you can do cost-per-thousand impressions (usually about 25-30 cents during the week and 40 cents on the weekend).
The ads will take the clicker wherever you want them to land.
I ran 5 different ads and got about 500,000 impressions (which turned out to be approx 280,000 unique views) for about 50 bucks.
Facebook is awesome for BRANDING, nothing else. If you're trying to sell something (like a tablesaw or tiedye shirts or whatever) than Google ads is best.
I did a mix of different kinds of ads and then checked my data and eliminated the ones that weren't working. For the cost-per-click ads I chose the types of people (based on their likes, etc) who would NEVER click on my ad, just to get lots of views and lots of branding; for the cost per thousand, I chose people who would absolutely click and made some vibrant, interesting kick-ass ads.
Now, 200 new fans for 50 bucks is not that awesome, but my website and videos got more views than I did fans. Someday, as I improve as a filmmaker (this webseries is my first time trying my hand at filmmaking), hopefully word of mouth will count for something and so on and so forth.
If you have a fan page you can obviously post messages and stuff that your fans can see, but even better is if you have a GROUP page because then you can send them direct messages that go to their inbox. I'm planning on setting up a group page, I only wish I would have done so sooner!
I've heard tons of great things about FB ads, and have experienced the awesomeness myself. For branding purposes I really don't think there's anything better online.
In the real world, since i'm in Chicago, I decided that I would put 100% of my advertising dollars and efforts into local marketing. If you live in a big city like Chicago, NewYork, LA, etc -- you really only need to make a name for yourself within that city.
Anyway, that's what I got after a couple months of doing this. It's all about taking what I know of real estate and spinning into film marketing, right?
filmman
Veteran
thanks for the info. you saved me a bundle of money. i wondered how effective those methods are; now i have a bit of an idea.
i think local advertising makes more sense; i live in southern california....
here's the trailer for THE RED QUEEN now that i know how to embed
i think local advertising makes more sense; i live in southern california....
here's the trailer for THE RED QUEEN now that i know how to embed
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Chamber005
Carbonite Member
Just a curiosity, is this a documentary or a narrative piece? A few times people were looking at the camera, so I assume it's more documentary?
But yeah, if you're going to set up any kind of fan (or group) page on Facebook, make sure to brand whatever product has the staying power. For instance I'm going to be mussing about with my webseries and DVDs regarding the same product for years to come, so it makes sense to brand The Overs, not necessarily its website, The Great Independent. Big motion pictures will brand themselves. Basterds and Zombieland had huge campaigns on FB. But in the case of the independent filmmaker I'd think it makes more sense to brand the company (or the filmmaker), not necessarily an individual production, as there's no easy way to transfer all of those fans from one production to the next. The only caveat is that it might be more challenging to capture an audience asking them to follow you rather than a product you're displaying, ya know?
You've got lots of hot people in your stuff, though, so right there you're going to get some fans online via FB. If people associate you or your production company with hot people twirling fire, that could be enough to garner a decent following.
Alternatively, I suppose you could set up a fan page for the movie and then a group page for you or your production company. I'm still on the fence of how I want to go about developing my own group page. Regardless, the group page is a MUCH more powerful device, but has a decisively different image than the fan page does.
(example fan page: "Chamber005" example group page: "Fans of Chamber005" See the difference? The latter is less professional and gives a different perspective. If you can make a fan page of your product and then create a group page or your production company, though, that would probably be best)
Whichever route you go, though, the key is to not OVER advertise once someone is a part of your fan page or group page. Update sparingly when updates are truly relevant. Nothing will get you unsubscribed as quickly as posting multiple entires/posts (that goes for MySpace as well). Twitter is a different animal because it acts as a kind of mini-blog. The best way to use Twitter is just to link it to your FB account so that everytime you update your FB fan page Twitter is updated with the same information. I've never once updated Twitter. I update FB and then my followers on Twitter get the info.
Also to get more advertising bang for your buck on Twitter, check out www.twendz.com an amazingly helpful engine that will inform you what people are Twittering most about. Thus if Michael jackson is a major Tweet, you can yourself post something about Michael Jackson and potentially get more views/followers (this would be Twitter-specific of course, not something you'd update your fanpage with). You can also then see if anyone is Twittering about any of your properties and can use it to find people who might be interested in following you.
Twitter is an absolute BEAST, though. And, honestly, I still feel it's unproven and has little value in the marketing world. Facebook is the absolute undisputed king of branding right now in the marketplace. Where else can you reach over a quarter of a million people with your brand image for 50 bucks? The key is to make incredible ads with the space given. Ask questions (multiple questions if possible) in your ads. ENGAGE people. Make your ads VIBRANT juxtaposed to Facebook's staunch white background. And if something isn't working, scrap it. A bad ad will NOT improve percentage wise. If one ad is beating another one it's because it's better. Nothing will ever change the percentage yielded.
In the end just always think of your product as real estate. You're trying to get as many people as possible onto that piece of real estate by any means (legally) necessary. Bait and switch, do whatever you have to do to GET THEM THERE. Once there they can decide if they want to hang out or not, right? My grandfather was hugely successful in advertising (he coined the phrase "It's the next best thing to being there." in regards to tele-communication) and he always said All advertising is good advertising, period.
Good luck!
But yeah, if you're going to set up any kind of fan (or group) page on Facebook, make sure to brand whatever product has the staying power. For instance I'm going to be mussing about with my webseries and DVDs regarding the same product for years to come, so it makes sense to brand The Overs, not necessarily its website, The Great Independent. Big motion pictures will brand themselves. Basterds and Zombieland had huge campaigns on FB. But in the case of the independent filmmaker I'd think it makes more sense to brand the company (or the filmmaker), not necessarily an individual production, as there's no easy way to transfer all of those fans from one production to the next. The only caveat is that it might be more challenging to capture an audience asking them to follow you rather than a product you're displaying, ya know?
You've got lots of hot people in your stuff, though, so right there you're going to get some fans online via FB. If people associate you or your production company with hot people twirling fire, that could be enough to garner a decent following.
Alternatively, I suppose you could set up a fan page for the movie and then a group page for you or your production company. I'm still on the fence of how I want to go about developing my own group page. Regardless, the group page is a MUCH more powerful device, but has a decisively different image than the fan page does.
(example fan page: "Chamber005" example group page: "Fans of Chamber005" See the difference? The latter is less professional and gives a different perspective. If you can make a fan page of your product and then create a group page or your production company, though, that would probably be best)
Whichever route you go, though, the key is to not OVER advertise once someone is a part of your fan page or group page. Update sparingly when updates are truly relevant. Nothing will get you unsubscribed as quickly as posting multiple entires/posts (that goes for MySpace as well). Twitter is a different animal because it acts as a kind of mini-blog. The best way to use Twitter is just to link it to your FB account so that everytime you update your FB fan page Twitter is updated with the same information. I've never once updated Twitter. I update FB and then my followers on Twitter get the info.
Also to get more advertising bang for your buck on Twitter, check out www.twendz.com an amazingly helpful engine that will inform you what people are Twittering most about. Thus if Michael jackson is a major Tweet, you can yourself post something about Michael Jackson and potentially get more views/followers (this would be Twitter-specific of course, not something you'd update your fanpage with). You can also then see if anyone is Twittering about any of your properties and can use it to find people who might be interested in following you.
Twitter is an absolute BEAST, though. And, honestly, I still feel it's unproven and has little value in the marketing world. Facebook is the absolute undisputed king of branding right now in the marketplace. Where else can you reach over a quarter of a million people with your brand image for 50 bucks? The key is to make incredible ads with the space given. Ask questions (multiple questions if possible) in your ads. ENGAGE people. Make your ads VIBRANT juxtaposed to Facebook's staunch white background. And if something isn't working, scrap it. A bad ad will NOT improve percentage wise. If one ad is beating another one it's because it's better. Nothing will ever change the percentage yielded.
In the end just always think of your product as real estate. You're trying to get as many people as possible onto that piece of real estate by any means (legally) necessary. Bait and switch, do whatever you have to do to GET THEM THERE. Once there they can decide if they want to hang out or not, right? My grandfather was hugely successful in advertising (he coined the phrase "It's the next best thing to being there." in regards to tele-communication) and he always said All advertising is good advertising, period.
Good luck!
filmman
Veteran
i really like what you wrote. i wasn't sure about FB until i read this. i thought twitter was better for marketing and frankly i've been banging my head on the wall there for a few months now.
i'm not using FB the right way. i'm definitely going to consider advertising with them -- for branding, i guess.
you're right, for us indies it's best to promote our own name rather than the movies we're making.
THE RED QUEEN is my first real felliniesque movie, and you're right it's a "creative documentary". It is based on a screenplay -- very roughly. So it's kind of a new genre.
i find a lot of freedom in making creative documentaries, especially as no-budget digital productions. i'm starting a new one within a week. FELLINI DIRECTS AGAIN! another felliniesque movie.
thanks for sharing so much good info on marketing and branding. i've definitely picked up a lot of useful stuff. let's hook up on FB. my nick is felliniesque.
vic alexander
i'm not using FB the right way. i'm definitely going to consider advertising with them -- for branding, i guess.
you're right, for us indies it's best to promote our own name rather than the movies we're making.
THE RED QUEEN is my first real felliniesque movie, and you're right it's a "creative documentary". It is based on a screenplay -- very roughly. So it's kind of a new genre.
i find a lot of freedom in making creative documentaries, especially as no-budget digital productions. i'm starting a new one within a week. FELLINI DIRECTS AGAIN! another felliniesque movie.
thanks for sharing so much good info on marketing and branding. i've definitely picked up a lot of useful stuff. let's hook up on FB. my nick is felliniesque.
vic alexander
filmman
Veteran
Here is the 2nd clip from the AFM. On the way to the AFM I saw a couple of girls with signs for a stolen movie. Apparently some distributor was selling their movie without their permission. Well, I don't know the other side of the story; but I thought it might be interesting to note that there can be disputes as to who owns the right to a movie, who is the legitimate rep for the movie, the producer of record, etc.
Here is the URL where you can see the 2nd clip:
http://www.releasing.net/afm09-2.html
Here is the URL where you can see the 2nd clip:
http://www.releasing.net/afm09-2.html
Chamber005
Carbonite Member
So I was wondering about AFM. I'm a long way off from ever trying to garner distribution on anything, but I was wondering if you know if they allow advertising for a movie that isn't being actually shown at the festival. It seems like the dollars would be better spent on advertising there rather than actually showing the film. For the price of entering in the festival and screening the movie you could purchase elevator ads, banners, 3 minute trailers, etc -- the kinds of things that really get distributors interested. I mean, if someone likes your poster or trailer, you can send a DVD and it only costs you a few bucks, ya know?
filmman
Veteran
yeah, but they only allow those things for participants who pay over $10,000 just to stick their heads in. however, you can advertise in the trades, such as the Hollywood Reporter. you can put a full page ad-poster of your movie in the market issue magazine with your contact info on it.
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
I suggest you cut your trailer like you did the final version of "Butterflies". As much as I like it, aside from the song we have no idea what the conflict is until the end and even then, we don't know what it means. And the guy at the end, does he sing Satanic Death Metal or Hardcore "Gansta" rap? What makes him a threat. Red has a nice presence in that last scene. She gets tough, but the conflict isn't really there. We need to know what the threat is and we never find out. It comes off as her overreacting to a street musician.
Also, never show people's lips moving without hearing the dialogue, it annoys the viewer and some dialogue could be very helpful. The current trailer comes off as more of a sizzle reel. You're just missing cuts of the actors and crew talking about the film. If you can get this tight like the final "Butterflies" trailer that would be awesome.
-Nate
Also, never show people's lips moving without hearing the dialogue, it annoys the viewer and some dialogue could be very helpful. The current trailer comes off as more of a sizzle reel. You're just missing cuts of the actors and crew talking about the film. If you can get this tight like the final "Butterflies" trailer that would be awesome.
-Nate
filmman
Veteran
Thanks for the advice, Nate. You're right ... again I have several great songs in the movie and it was hard to resist cutting my teaser-promo to one of them (Distant Star by Discrete Encounter). The RED QUEEN is after all a rock-n-roll musical: it tells the story with song and dance.
But a trailer just to excite the buyers at a forthcoming market ... or even on the Internet, would be very useful indeed. So last night I loaded up the project in my FCP Studio on the G5 and today I'm going to brainstorm a new trailer for THE RED QUEEN.
I have several great songs in the movie and it was hard to resist cutting my teaser-promo to one of them (Distant Star by Discrete Encounter). The RED QUEEN is after all a rock-n-roll musical: it tells the story with song and dance.But a trailer just to excite the buyers at a forthcoming market ... or even on the Internet, would be very useful indeed. So last night I loaded up the project in my FCP Studio on the G5 and today I'm going to brainstorm a new trailer for THE RED QUEEN.
filmman
Veteran
Thanks Nate, you helped me cut it You have a critical eye. You saw when a scene was too long and suggested cutting it, or removing it entirely but keeping the dialogue.
You also recommended using more action in my Vietnam epic. You also write good copy ... and do great poster designs ...
hmmmm, there is a pattern emerging here: you are a great marketing man, Nate!
I really appreciate it I know someday we will make a movie together. You and I are on the same wavelength; we can work as a team.
By the way, I'm working on the trailer for THE RED QUEEN. I have a lot of shots in the movie, a lot of different scenes. Also there are a lot of outtakes which are perfect for the trailer but couldn't be fit into the movie, because I shot very creatively and couldn't cut some of my best scenes together. (That's a big disadvantage of documentary style shooting when making narrative films.)
But, I'm working on it, and I will definitely need your help in reigning it my enthusiasm for certain types of shots. The biggest problem of a filmmaker cutting his own trailer is the closeness that one feels for his own shooting. Still I enjoy editing my trailers and posting them. It's a learning experience with what works and what doesn't before the whole movie is put up there for exhibition.
You have a critical eye. You saw when a scene was too long and suggested cutting it, or removing it entirely but keeping the dialogue.You also recommended using more action in my Vietnam epic. You also write good copy ... and do great poster designs ...
hmmmm, there is a pattern emerging here: you are a great marketing man, Nate!
I really appreciate it
I know someday we will make a movie together. You and I are on the same wavelength; we can work as a team.By the way, I'm working on the trailer for THE RED QUEEN. I have a lot of shots in the movie, a lot of different scenes. Also there are a lot of outtakes which are perfect for the trailer but couldn't be fit into the movie, because I shot very creatively and couldn't cut some of my best scenes together. (That's a big disadvantage of documentary style shooting when making narrative films.)
But, I'm working on it, and I will definitely need your help in reigning it my enthusiasm for certain types of shots. The biggest problem of a filmmaker cutting his own trailer is the closeness that one feels for his own shooting. Still I enjoy editing my trailers and posting them. It's a learning experience with what works and what doesn't before the whole movie is put up there for exhibition.
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
What I normally do is find the trailers I like and cut mine that way. I listen to the type of music, the dialogue, when it comes in and how it comes in. What I have to work on now is shot selection. Like my 4th Beast Trailer was pretty good in terms of how it was put together but the shot selection wasn't that great. Plus many times trailers misdirect you with scenes that sometimes aren't even in the film but make the trailer look good. There's a science to it but it's also an art. I suggest you cut your trailer like this:
You may not see the correlation, but listen to the music and watch how the trailer is cut to make this all seem so awesome. And if you need to get one of those deep voice guys to do voice over then do it. I would watch this trailer and cut mine cut by cut to mimic it. You will need some intro music then can use the song you're using now, after the introductory music comes in.
-Nate
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| I AGREE |
You may not see the correlation, but listen to the music and watch how the trailer is cut to make this all seem so awesome. And if you need to get one of those deep voice guys to do voice over then do it. I would watch this trailer and cut mine cut by cut to mimic it. You will need some intro music then can use the song you're using now, after the introductory music comes in.
-Nate
Martay
Veteran
Have you tried Facebook ads? I used them for a week and got about 200 new "fans" of my webseries from it. I haven't used it since (going to use it again once I release the 3rd ep).
If you care to know, here's the skinny:
You can either buy cost-per-click ads (usually about 50 cents a pop during the week. Bid goes higher on the weekend)
Or you can do cost-per-thousand impressions (usually about 25-30 cents during the week and 40 cents on the weekend).
The ads will take the clicker wherever you want them to land.
I ran 5 different ads and got about 500,000 impressions (which turned out to be approx 280,000 unique views) for about 50 bucks.
Facebook is awesome for BRANDING, nothing else. If you're trying to sell something (like a tablesaw or tiedye shirts or whatever) than Google ads is best.
I did a mix of different kinds of ads and then checked my data and eliminated the ones that weren't working. For the cost-per-click ads I chose the types of people (based on their likes, etc) who would NEVER click on my ad, just to get lots of views and lots of branding; for the cost per thousand, I chose people who would absolutely click and made some vibrant, interesting kick-ass ads.
Now, 200 new fans for 50 bucks is not that awesome, but my website and videos got more views than I did fans. Someday, as I improve as a filmmaker (this webseries is my first time trying my hand at filmmaking), hopefully word of mouth will count for something and so on and so forth.
If you have a fan page you can obviously post messages and stuff that your fans can see, but even better is if you have a GROUP page because then you can send them direct messages that go to their inbox. I'm planning on setting up a group page, I only wish I would have done so sooner!
I've heard tons of great things about FB ads, and have experienced the awesomeness myself. For branding purposes I really don't think there's anything better online.
In the real world, since i'm in Chicago, I decided that I would put 100% of my advertising dollars and efforts into local marketing. If you live in a big city like Chicago, NewYork, LA, etc -- you really only need to make a name for yourself within that city.
Anyway, that's what I got after a couple months of doing this. It's all about taking what I know of real estate and spinning into film marketing, right?
Very good information. Thanks for the heads up on this.
-M
filmman
Veteran
That's right; markets are becoming extremely expensive. The AFM, CANNES and BERLINALE are all over $10,000 just to participate -- not counting travel, lodging, food, advertising, screenings, taxis, entertainment and tips
Facebook, Myspace, Twitter -- these are all very valuable for the indie filmmaker.
For releasing your movies on a non-exclusive basis (without losing your rights and control of a movie), http://www.CreateSpace.com is the best deal in town. I use them for all my works.
Facebook, Myspace, Twitter -- these are all very valuable for the indie filmmaker.
For releasing your movies on a non-exclusive basis (without losing your rights and control of a movie), http://www.CreateSpace.com is the best deal in town. I use them for all my works.