attrition4u
Member
Just finished this short yesterday. Pretty psyched about it as I have been hella blocked lately. If anybody has time to give it a read, I sure would appreciate the feedback... 
TIA,
Chris
TIA,
Chris
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- Thread starter attrition4u
- Start date
Just to add, some might say there is too much direction, telling actors how to act etc.
IMHOP there isn't and I wouldn't change a thing.
My only other suggestion is that invoking 9/11 demands an A game treatment. People typically cut shorts lots of slack. "He's a new director" or "it's experimental" or "He had no budget" etc. For some reason I feel an audience wouldn't be as tolerant as they'd otherwise be.
IMHOP there isn't and I wouldn't change a thing.
My only other suggestion is that invoking 9/11 demands an A game treatment. People typically cut shorts lots of slack. "He's a new director" or "it's experimental" or "He had no budget" etc. For some reason I feel an audience wouldn't be as tolerant as they'd otherwise be.
I don't read it as invoking 9-11 (in any political sense)...I don't think that there are many catastrophic events, from which a telephone message would have the same recognizability, and dramatic impact. I imagine that there may be hundreds of very similar, very painful private dramas people are still going through for real, in connection with the events of the day.
And - in script form, anyway - this pretty much does impress me as A-game treatment.
And - in script form, anyway - this pretty much does impress me as A-game treatment.
I don't read it as invoking 9-11 (in any political sense)...I don't think that there are many catastrophic events, from which a telephone message would have the same recognizability,.
Well the script does have dialog saying "There was an explosion here at the Trade Center".
Nothing ambiguous here. If it isn't the writer's intent to invoke 9/11 then I'd suggest changing that line.
And I was actually refering to the actual shoot in regards to my "A-game" treatment.
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Sorry; I wasn't clear. Yes, the story seems clearly to reference 9-11. I read invoke to suggest that there's an intent to utilize the event for some purpose beyond its function in the story.
As in, invoking 9-11 to justify certain foreign policies, or invoking 9-11 to justify some domestic policies, or invoking 9-11 to try and muzzle the expression of opposing political views.
Just how I read it, myself.
As in, invoking 9-11 to justify certain foreign policies, or invoking 9-11 to justify some domestic policies, or invoking 9-11 to try and muzzle the expression of opposing political views.
Just how I read it, myself.
Sorry; I wasn't clear. Yes, the story seems clearly to reference 9-11. I read invoke to suggest that there's an intent to utilize the event for some purpose beyond its function in the story.
As in, invoking 9-11 to justify certain foreign policies, or invoking 9-11 to justify some domestic policies, or invoking 9-11 to try and muzzle the expression of opposing political views.
Just how I read it, myself.
Dude, you're watching too much FOX.
Sit tight, the '08 election will be here soon.
I watch more Link TV, than I do Fox. You get it from all over, now.
Anyway, I like the script.
I see you're a set designer and animator. Indulge us. How so you "see" this script? What's the house look like etc?
S
SeanEmer
Guest
That was great! I got a tear, it was touching.
Just a side note: Isn't it great how 9/11 gets political no matter what context it is presented in?
Just a side note: Isn't it great how 9/11 gets political no matter what context it is presented in?
attrition4u
Member
Smiling...
Smiling...
I pretty much love you guys right now. Rough night. It's nice to get some positive feedback. Not feeling like much of a writer lately.
On invoking 9/11. To be honest, while I was writing, I felt like referencing 9/11 was cheap because it is, without question, the easy way to obtain an emotional response.
However, after some thought, I decided that the script would play just as easily if it were a car crash or any other sudden, unexpected method of death to which Roger had lost his life. That being said, it is a phone call that provides the reveal at the end. And, I have to agree with SadMax, in that there isn't another catastrophic event, that I can think of, from which a voicemail would be as recognizable and resonate as strongly. And, when it comes right down to it, my character organically dictated that it was 9/11 while I was writing it... :happy:
On a separate but related note, on 9/11, I was in radio. I produced a very popular (at least in my area) morning show for a news talk station. When the towers fell, I felt it. But, I didn't feel it. It didn't sit on me because I was numb...as a result of being a broadcaster. After a while, when you are in news, you just begin to lose your feeling and everything just strikes you as "a big story" but you never quite connect with the event. Or, at least, I didn't. However, when I heard the stories of people calling home...saying goodbye...and, even worse, getting answering machines and/or voicemails, I was an absolute mess for weeks. Tore me up. There's something about the image of an individual saying goodbye to an electronic box that, for me, personally, breaks my heart. And, it is for that reason that I feel like the ole' muse dictated that she lost him to 9/11. Because it was such a powerful image for me.
I'm just psyched that you guys read it. Thank you.
Chris
Smiling...
I pretty much love you guys right now. Rough night. It's nice to get some positive feedback. Not feeling like much of a writer lately.
On invoking 9/11. To be honest, while I was writing, I felt like referencing 9/11 was cheap because it is, without question, the easy way to obtain an emotional response.
However, after some thought, I decided that the script would play just as easily if it were a car crash or any other sudden, unexpected method of death to which Roger had lost his life. That being said, it is a phone call that provides the reveal at the end. And, I have to agree with SadMax, in that there isn't another catastrophic event, that I can think of, from which a voicemail would be as recognizable and resonate as strongly. And, when it comes right down to it, my character organically dictated that it was 9/11 while I was writing it... :happy:
On a separate but related note, on 9/11, I was in radio. I produced a very popular (at least in my area) morning show for a news talk station. When the towers fell, I felt it. But, I didn't feel it. It didn't sit on me because I was numb...as a result of being a broadcaster. After a while, when you are in news, you just begin to lose your feeling and everything just strikes you as "a big story" but you never quite connect with the event. Or, at least, I didn't. However, when I heard the stories of people calling home...saying goodbye...and, even worse, getting answering machines and/or voicemails, I was an absolute mess for weeks. Tore me up. There's something about the image of an individual saying goodbye to an electronic box that, for me, personally, breaks my heart. And, it is for that reason that I feel like the ole' muse dictated that she lost him to 9/11. Because it was such a powerful image for me.
I'm just psyched that you guys read it. Thank you.
Chris
On invoking 9/11. To be honest, while I was writing, I felt like referencing 9/11 was cheap because it is, without question, the easy way to obtain an emotional response.
Chris
I'm glad you said this and not me. But it's exactly what I was thinking. I'm a disabled LA Firefighter, so maybe I'm hyper sensitive to 9/11. I dunno. I'd stop short of calling it exploitive but there's a bit of a cheat about it. That's what I was trying to get at earlier, that it's such a loaded event, and if one little hair is out of place people might be offended. I don't know what to say. If I was writing this I'd make the 9/11 reference more opaque. Just look how this thread almost became poliiticized--yet your story is personal and couldn't be less political. It's like bringing an elephant in to a classroom--the kids might be in class to learn, but they're all thinking about the elephant.
attrition4u
Member
Brian,
I agree. I mean, like I said...that's why it occurred to me when I was writing it. It's throwing it right out there to have him directly say "there was an explosion over here at the Trade Center." And, personally, I thought about making it more ambiguous. We are all sensitive to the subject. Maybe some more than others. I appreciate your feedback and honesty...and will consider every word of it.
Chris
I agree. I mean, like I said...that's why it occurred to me when I was writing it. It's throwing it right out there to have him directly say "there was an explosion over here at the Trade Center." And, personally, I thought about making it more ambiguous. We are all sensitive to the subject. Maybe some more than others. I appreciate your feedback and honesty...and will consider every word of it.
Chris
S
SeanEmer
Guest
Then again, if 9/11 remains to be considered 'too sensitive' in all media short of a holywood production, there's a good chance that the tragedy will remain taboo for a very long time.
Film is about testing the boundries and pushing the envelope when it comes to visuals, story, and emotion. I see 9/11 as being perfectly placed in this script. When I read the V.O. revealing what had happened, I could feel the audience gasping - it was perfect. I doubt that a car wreck or any other disaster could come close to that kind of transcendental connection.
Sure, 9/11 might isolate a few oversensitive people (I don't mean that offensively), but it would make the film that much more powerful for the rest of the audience. Replacing 9/11 with some generic accident would make the script seem mediocre to me - and when I say that I mean that we would have an amazing buildup and a subpar and payoff. The script is preparing us for something big, and a generic accident just doesn't cut it in my opinion.
Film is about testing the boundries and pushing the envelope when it comes to visuals, story, and emotion. I see 9/11 as being perfectly placed in this script. When I read the V.O. revealing what had happened, I could feel the audience gasping - it was perfect. I doubt that a car wreck or any other disaster could come close to that kind of transcendental connection.
Sure, 9/11 might isolate a few oversensitive people (I don't mean that offensively), but it would make the film that much more powerful for the rest of the audience. Replacing 9/11 with some generic accident would make the script seem mediocre to me - and when I say that I mean that we would have an amazing buildup and a subpar and payoff. The script is preparing us for something big, and a generic accident just doesn't cut it in my opinion.
attrition4u
Member
I really kind of agree. It does kinda feel like it is what is required of the story. But, then, it is what kinda came to me when I was writing...so I'm biased, by my own admission.
I thought about this for a while last night when I was laying in bed. And, I couldn't help but wonder what it is that makes 9/11 untouchable for some. Is it distance? Too soon? It is a tragedy that still lingers very close and very near to us all. But, there are other tragedies that linger close and near and aren't as taboo. For example, what about a script that had a reference to the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City? Would it have the same effect? Hell no. But, why? People died there too. And, it most likely, would not in anyway damage the integrity of the script or make it feel cheap.
I'm just thinking aloud. I think, too, for some, there is a monstrous difference between a timeline/event description style movie like WTC or United 93 and something that simply references it as a possible source for discomfort and pain in the characters' lives. But, then, that is the reality, isn't it? There are hundreds of thousands that are still dealing with the aftermath...the devestation...and, to me, that's as real as it gets.
I thought about this for a while last night when I was laying in bed. And, I couldn't help but wonder what it is that makes 9/11 untouchable for some. Is it distance? Too soon? It is a tragedy that still lingers very close and very near to us all. But, there are other tragedies that linger close and near and aren't as taboo. For example, what about a script that had a reference to the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City? Would it have the same effect? Hell no. But, why? People died there too. And, it most likely, would not in anyway damage the integrity of the script or make it feel cheap.
I'm just thinking aloud. I think, too, for some, there is a monstrous difference between a timeline/event description style movie like WTC or United 93 and something that simply references it as a possible source for discomfort and pain in the characters' lives. But, then, that is the reality, isn't it? There are hundreds of thousands that are still dealing with the aftermath...the devestation...and, to me, that's as real as it gets.
S
SeanEmer
Guest
9/11 has become so taboo not because of the event itself, but because of the events it triggered. No matter what side of the fence you are on, it is impossible to deny that 9/11 had huge political ramifications and altered the course of American history. That's simply fact. Its the controversy over the triggered actions - Iraq for example - that makes 9/11 so taboo. Hell, some people actually believe that 9/11 was a government conspiracy.
It was the most dramatic violent tragedy on American soil that any of us can, and, hopefully, will ever remember. Nobody is objecting, I think, to 9/11 itself as a source of pain and suffering. Rather, they are objecting to the inevitable political and ethical debates and emotions that seem to come attached with the event itself.
I say make the film now - it's too good to let sit for another decade. Some people may object to using a political event in a film. You should remind those people that the death of thousands and the destruction of families are hardly political. It’s the connotations of the event that they find controversial.
Besides, in a few years 9/11 will hopefully be less 'blacklisted' as far as subject matter goes, and the film will be even more accessible.
It was the most dramatic violent tragedy on American soil that any of us can, and, hopefully, will ever remember. Nobody is objecting, I think, to 9/11 itself as a source of pain and suffering. Rather, they are objecting to the inevitable political and ethical debates and emotions that seem to come attached with the event itself.
I say make the film now - it's too good to let sit for another decade. Some people may object to using a political event in a film. You should remind those people that the death of thousands and the destruction of families are hardly political. It’s the connotations of the event that they find controversial.
Besides, in a few years 9/11 will hopefully be less 'blacklisted' as far as subject matter goes, and the film will be even more accessible.
Treating 9-11 as off-limits and primarily of political significance, impresses me as being like treating the Pearl Harbor attack as purely a military matter, or the ValueJet crash as strictly an issue of aviation technology.
Yes, sure, 9-11 has political, and military, and cultural significance. But ultimately its importance comes from the cumulative effect it had on many thousands of people in very personal and intimate ways.
From my perspective, economic and military and intelligence and security issues are all very real and worthwhile, but you can tell a story about individual suffering caused by 9-11, without being exploitive.
Yes, sure, 9-11 has political, and military, and cultural significance. But ultimately its importance comes from the cumulative effect it had on many thousands of people in very personal and intimate ways.
From my perspective, economic and military and intelligence and security issues are all very real and worthwhile, but you can tell a story about individual suffering caused by 9-11, without being exploitive.
I think several factors differentiate 9/11 from other tragedies. Yes, it set other events in to motion and changed the political landscape, but what really separates it is that we all WITNESSED it, And not just once but over and over and over again. The horrific images are indelible and are part of us now. This script is tapping that cache and that's why some people might not like it. There are limits to film and artistic expression--for example I've never seen a film showing children getting raped. Yet that happens every day. I don't know where you draw the line. This is a tough one. If it were me, I shoot different endings.
S
SeanEmer
Guest
I think several factors differentiate 9/11 from other tragedies. Yes, it set other events in to motion and changed the political landscape, but what really separates it is that we all WITNESSED it, And not just once but over and over and over again. The horrific images are indelible and are part of us now. This script is tapping that cache and that's why some people might not like it. There are limits to film and artistic expression--for example I've never seen a film showing children getting raped. Yet that happens every day. I don't know where you draw the line. This is a tough one. If it were me, I shoot different endings.
I don't think its fair to compare taboo and blatantly illegal and distasteful sexuality with an uncontrollable event when considering 'where to stop'. Tapping the emotional resorvoir of 9/11 is very different from showing something illegal and commonly distasteful. 9/11 brings up feelings of patriotism, mourning, love, bravery. It can't be compared with just any other subject that also happens to be considered 'taboo'. That's what I meant when I said that 9/11 itself is not taboo, but rather it is the political bullcrap that comes along with it that we shun.
We all know what 9/11 was. I don't see why we shouldn't be able to hear about it in films. Yes, it hurts for the people who lost someone in the attacks, but that is the nature of loss. If anything, victim's families should be able to connect more with this script than anybody else could.
Also, I don't see how it can be healthy to actively ignore a national tragedy. I hear about a lot of people avoiding 9/11 or its related issues when creating artwork, such as film, because they don't want to get drawn into the political battle. Art is a form of expression, and film is the most popular art in the world - in my opinion at least. When we start censoring ourselves because we don't want to risk someone being politically offended, etc., then we aren't doing justice to our craft.
Film is meant to bring out the best and worst in man (and everything in between), as that is generally the nature of any art, and I don't think it is fair to censor or change its content in order to avoid the possibility of a controversy. Take Birth of a Nation. Probably one of the most controversial films ever created, and yet that controversy in part lead to its popularity.
I'm out of ideas of what to say next, haha. I hope I didn't offend anybody...