February 1st, 2006

ShannonRawls

ShannonRawls

Well-known member
So many places, I hear people bashing HDV, bashing DVCPRO-HD, bashing FX1/Z1U, bashing 1080i, bashing 720p. Etc...
Since 2005 seems to be the dawn of a new day in Digital Video in reference to HD, please....let's save this thread until 2/1/2006 and count the votes.

In this thread, place your bets on who will win the HiDef war.

Reply with your opinion. Now, c'mon people, we all know who 'really' thinks 'what', based on their past responses, tests, posts, arguments and claims. So don't come here trying to be politically correct singing cuam-baya talking about "let's wait and see, everything i've said in the past is speculative" and all that crap. MAN UP and don't be a punk. Say what you feel. Simply state what you believe NOW, post it HERE, let's not make this a big discusion forum. save discussions for other posts. Respect eachothers opinion and we'll see how it goes in 1 years time. *smile*

To make things easier for you, I will start it off.....
_________________________________________________

SHANNON W. RAWLS, Producer
- I believe 1080i will be the majority standard for Broadcast Television throughout the entire world and will remain to be until a HIGHER resultion option becomes available.
- I believe 720p HD cameras for television production will never be a standard of the majority and therefore be forced to up-convert to 1080i to be broadcasted naturally making better sense to originate your projects from a camera that shoots in 1080i.
- I believe for NOW and the FUTURE that anyone who shoots HD 720p is doing so because of a financial/economic reasons, and if "Money was no object" they would rather shoot 1080i. Which brings me to the new HDV format....
- I believe the Sony FX1 & Z1 HDV cameras are here to stay and will become staple equipment in most motion picture production.
- I believe that will be part of the inventory list in more production companies then any "comparable" camera made by it's competitors by Feb 1st, 2006.
- I believe the High Definition Video format, called "HDV" will infact be accepted for HD broadcast, and will be allowed as a master format to larger Cable HD networks such as HDNet, Discovery HD, ESPN HD, and others of the like by Feb 1st, 2006.
- I believe, regardless of numbers, comparisons and test charts, that the "HDV" format will in the next 12 months become the 2nd most accepted format next to HDCAM for Television broadcast. (ducking)
- I believe many TV shows that currently originate their footage in 35mm or HD will choose to use the "HDV" format as an alternate capturing format over any other competing format. Yes, that means, more then DVCPRO-HD on the new upcoming HDX camera or any other type of hybrid HD format that will be comparable to "HDV".
- I believe (and the numbers will soon show) that Sony will sell and continue to sell more HDV FX1/Z1U cameras then Panasonic or JVC until Sony themselves comes out with a newer version of this camera.
- I believe we will see a million dollar+ motion picture movie on the big screen shot with the SOny HDV cameras before any of its competitors. Which brings me to my next issue of Modes...
- I believe the CineFrame 24 (CF24) mode, despite its hate-mail and naysayers, will become an acceptable mode to shoot in with the Sony HD cameras.
- I believe one of those million-dollar+ movies mentioned above will have originated it's footage in CF24 mode and move on to be a blockbuster hit and the 'masses' will not care one bit and they will say "It looked great!"
- I believe the producer of that million-dollar hit will be me (dammit shannon, wake up!) *smile*

MY NAME IS SHANNON W. RAWLS, and that is what I believe
______________________________

If I am wrong on February 1st, 2006. I'll eat my words. *smile*

Now.....what do YOU believe?

- ShannonRawls.com
 
Re: February 1st, 2006

ok, here's what I really think. I believe you are trying to reassure yourself that it was a good idea to spend almost 5 grand on a camera that now, after playing around with it for a little while you may not really think it is all that and a bag of chips.I believe that the possibility of losing half a second of video in a dropout is totally unacceptable.I believe that there are too many versions of Hd tv sets to choose from.What the hell is "Hd ready", "Hd built in", "enhanced definition"????? What??????? ???Why do have to spend 2 to 3 grand on an HD tv and still have to buy an Hd set top box for it?I believe watching some programs in 16:9 and seeing the commercials come on in 4:3 sucks.I believe that the cable guy trying to tell me that it's better to get digital cable for $20.00 dollars a month more than what I pay now for 5 channels out of I don't know how many is total B.S. I Believe Chris Rock when He went to the Magic Johnson Theatre yesterday and asked everyone what they thought of or had even seen any of those flicks in the running for an Oscar and they all looked at him in bewilderment.I believe Chris Rock should host every damn awards show period.Screw all you Hollywood A-listers! ;D I believe that it's totally stupid that I have to shoot my live shots for news in widescreen, yet shoot to tape in 4:3.That hasn't bitten any of us in the ass more than once in a run and gun breaking news situation. :P I believe that you believe cineframe 24 sucks. and hearing all the rumors from Panasonic about their version of 24p Hd, P2 ,and how it will blow away anything Sony can come up with, that you my friend......should have waited.That is what I believe.I like this thread. Good idea :)
david
 
Re: February 1st, 2006

Was there a gauntlet thrown down here?  I thought I saw... oh, here it is.

Okay, I'll pick it up.  I'll try to address similar points to yours so that we have a clear picture of the full discussion.

_________________________________________________
Barry W. Green, Producer
I believe 1080i will be the majority standard in the USA, and I believe that 720/50p will be the sole HD standard for broadcast in Europe, until such time as 1080/50p becomes viable.  I believe Europe will completely reject interlaced high definition.

-  I believe 720p HD cameras (such as the VariCam) will dramatically out-sell 1080i HD cameras in dramatic/narrative/commercial television production.  I believe that by 2/1/2006, the Varicam will enjoy an installed-user-base advantage of 3x as many as the CineAlta.

Furthermore, I believe 1080i will remain a staple of live/reality show/news production, and 720/24p and 1080/24p will become the dominant forms of video origination for sitcoms and dramatic series.  720p will be used by those stations already broadcasting in 720p and throughout Europe.


-  I believe that for NOW and the FUTURE, anyone who shoots HD 720p is doing so because they prefer the look, and the flexibility that comes from variable frame rates.  If money were no object they would rather shoot 1080/24p, assuming there were a camera that offered variable frame rates.  I believe that there is no film producer, commercial shooter, or other professional production personnel who would prefer 1080i over 1080/24p for shooting films or commercials.  I believe there are several TV production crews who would prefer 1080i over 1080/24p or 720p for their particular types of shows, being game shows, reality TV, news, or other shows that benefit from the "immediacy" of 60i/60p video.

-  I believe that rather than becoming dominant, the Sony FX1 and Z1 HDV cameras will be rendered basically irrelevant to motion picture production on April 18, 2005.  The FX1/Z1 will only be considered for motion picture production after that date by a) people who already own it, b) die-hard Sony brand fanatics, or c) people who prefer the interlaced look over the progressive look, d) people intending to shoot dozens/hundreds of tapes, or e) people who simply have to shoot HD prior to the actual release of the Panasonic camera.

-  I believe that the Z1 will be part of the inventory list in documentary production companies, but that there will be far, far more "comparable" Panasonic HD cameras in the inventories of production companies who produce commercials and films.

-  I believe that HDV will in fact be accepted for HD broadcast, or at the very least HDV-originated material will be acceptable once it's transferred to an appropriate broadcast-station's in-house format (whether HDCAM or DVCPRO-HD).

-  I believe, regardless of numbers, comparisons and test charts, that HDV will be a minority player in the landscape of television broadcast, far, far trailing the prevailing standards of HDCAM, DVCPRO-HD, Digital Betacam, DVCPRO50/25, and BetaSP.

-  I believe that *practically no* TV shows that currently originate their footage in 35mm will choose to use the 1080i HDV format*, although several (perhaps even many) will choose to use the new Panasonic DVCPRO-HD camera.  I believe that some shows that currently originate on interlaced HD will instead adopt the HDV format.  (*note: this may change if JVC introduces the rumored 1080/24P HDV camera).

-  I believe (and the numbers will very much show) that Panasonic will sell at least twice as many of its upcoming DVCPRO-HD camera as Sony will sell of its Z1.

-  I believe that because there will be more DVCPRO-HD cameras out there, the sheer statistical numerical superiority will mean that it will be more likely to see the million+ dollar picture originating from a DVCPRO-HD shooter rather than a Z1 shooter.  Note: this prediction can only be put into play once the Panasonic is on the market; it's possible that someone will succeed with the Z1 prior to that (heck, Blair Witch was shot on a Hi-8 camcorder!)

-  I believe that CineFrame 24 will be rejected by all professional shooters, once they really begin to understand the mode.

My name is Barry W. Green, this is what I believe, and I'm not afraid to say it, and I look forward to reviewing the results on February 1, 2006.
_________________________________________________
 
Re: February 1st, 2006

-I believe that the first 1080 24P cam in ANY format that costs under $8000 will become the low budget standard for years.

-I believe that until then both sides of the 1080i/720p debate will be able to claim superiority and certain advantages.

-I believe that most pros/shows will stick with anything 24P.

-I believe that the first great HD-originated low budget flick shot on a sub-$10k cam WILL come from a Sony HDV cam, if only because it's out first.

-I believe that flick will demonstrate again that 1080i can be converted/manipulated pretty easily into a very compelling/dramatic picture, even to the eyes of 24P lovers.

-I believe that most DVX users will show brand loyalty and stick with the Panny HD cam, and that it will outsell the Sony HDV products as a result.

-I believe you should learn the art of shooting on the solution that best balances cost vs. performance/results and that HDV cams will provide that.

-I sure as h-e-double-hockey-sticks believe that viewers won't really give a sh*t what cam was used as long as it looks interesting.
 
Re: February 1st, 2006

My name is ------------ and I am an Alcho. . . wait a minute, wrong forum. I am a student currently earning my BFA in Photography.

-I believe that for dramatic/theatrical work, any form of progressive scan is and will be the prefered medium, and yes this means 720p over 1080i.

-I beleive that Panasonic has the intentions of releasing this cameras with the film maker in mind (finally) and that producers, directors, DP's and all other film makers alike will embrace it for what it is.

-I do no believe that the HDX camera will be the chosen camera for weddings, or other event photography. I think the Sony's will lead the way in that field.

-I believe that it is not too late for the Panasonic as has been stated by several other forum members, and that this camera will be accepted widely by the masses as the camera of choice for all filmkers searching for an affordable digital medium whether by purchase or rental.

-I believe, however, that people will still be creating great work on the DVX by 2006, I beleive that the FX1, and the Xl2 will also be widely used for dramitic work by 2006.

-I beleive that the Z1 will be the camera to take the largest hit by the HDX and will only have a future use for 60i applications, nothing more.

My name is ------------------, and I believe that each camera has it's use. I beleive that many cameras are and will be used for what they are not meant to be simply because of brand loyalty and convienince.

See you in 2006 ;)
 
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Re: February 1st, 2006

Man up and dont be a punk? A true test of ones man hood? LOL Uh, okay.

I think Barry and David said it best.  

My name is John Hudson; and I don't really give a flying....

HD HD HD

When are 'we' (We being the majority non-rich persons) be able to afford ann HD set (and add-ons as mentoined by David).  I have never professed to be schooled in the technical aspects but have ALWAYS said "Who owns High Def televisions?"  I know one person; the couple are in their mid 50's and the TV isnt even set up correctly.

I'm a student of Barry Green; whatevr he says; is gospel in my book.  I have never read a more unbiased take than his own; the man is about the facts.

The fact is "Who gives a flying f*** what will be dominant in 2006. Technology will constantly change and the real task is choosing the right tool for the right job. I could care less if it's Sony, Canon, Pani or JVC. Whichever one suits my needs is gonna win and I could care less if only 4% of the industry uses it."

IN closing? NO, I dont think HD is it. NOt yet and not by 2006. I'm going out on a limb here, but the people that cant afford an HD set today probally cant afford it 1 year from now. It does look stunning (I saw an MLB game at THE FIELD in the GASLAMP over the summer and I was amazed at the rez. BUt it looked like really killer video. IF it was affordable, I'd most definatley get a set. I just cant afford one and surely am not gonna invest in a camera; right now TODAY, the DVX is my baby. NExt year? I have a feeling it will be the DVX2; if not, Ill hold onto the DVX until that Magic Cam comes out for me.

Shannon; sounds to me like buyers remorse.
 
Re: February 1st, 2006

And hyperbloic says it the best:

"I sure as h-e-double-hockey-sticks believe that viewers won't really give a sh*t what cam was used as long as it looks interesting. "

So true. We are so concerned with the tech stuff and te reality is; are we entertaining you? You, the audience? Cause if you aint got that; it wont matter if you shoot XL1 or Arriflex.
 
Re: February 1st, 2006

I believe I'm going to wait and see what comes out in the next few months.
 
Re: February 1st, 2006

[quote author=John Hudson link=board=sony;num=1109628592;start=0#6 date=02/28/05 at 19:49:13]Man up and dont be a punk?  A true test of ones man hood?  LOL  Uh, okay.
I'm a student of Barry Green; whatevr he says; is gospel in my book.[/quote]

Yes....don't you think so.  Say one thing in person, but Lie on the Internet.  Or sSmile in my face, but talk behind ....etc....  saying one thing one day, and changing your words to suit the conversation another day.... If a man staying true to his "WORD" and beliefs is not a test of MAN-HOOD, like I have done, like your Pastor/Teacher/Sinse'/Jedi Master Mr. Barry Green has done, oh nevermind Mr. Hudson, you don't get it.  
LOL

[quote author=John Hudson link=board=sony;num=1109628592;start=0#6 date=02/28/05 at 19:49:13]Shannon; sounds to me like buyers remorse.[/quote]

LMAO! lololol.  Dude, I bought a Z1 when they werent even availbale yet. LOL  Additionally, I have sitting in my closet TWO Xl1s's, A JVC DV500 and my DVX100a (probably had it before you were sleeping with your "DVX baby" LOL.), a TRV17, an S-VHS cam, my very first VHS camcorder and a bunch of Hi-8 and 8mm junk.  Da heck you talkin about Buyers remorse?  LOL, what is that?  I've never experienced 'remorse' for something I bought that costs under $20,000.  LOL.  Now if you wanna talk about that Lexus GS300 I bought instead of the MB S500.  or maybe my first house because I was anxious and accepted a 10% finance rate...then you can come at me about Buyers Remorse.  But for a freakin Handycam?? LOLOL  I'll probably be the first to own the new Panasonic HDX camera too, cause I like the specs it has and seems to be a great "TOOL" to make movies for my productions @ www.BeOut.com. LOLOLOL

Just state what you BELEIVE for Feb 1st, 2006.  Let's discuss stuff elsewhere.  gee wiz.

- Shannon W. Rawls
Oh......and John....now you know TWO people who owns a Hi Def television. *smile*
 
Re: February 1st, 2006

I want to be sitting on my front porch of my farmhouse over looking the river and my land. Drinking hot chocolate and wondering if I should go edit or write my latest film.

Or if I really get lucky have a beautiful woman come rub down my tired neck muscles.
 
Re: February 1st, 2006

We'll see wjat Europe does, but for now Sony made 1080i available to the market. Panasonic slept and they are not going to catch up on this one. 2006? too late. by that time everybody will be equiped for 1080i. Later, whtn EU decides on a standard, things may change. But Panasonic is no longer in a position to change things anymore. Maybe JVC can.
 
Re: February 1st, 2006

My name is Sergej Ivanovits. I'm a heatman.
- I believe 1080i is a winner just right now.
- I believe the next winner going to be a 1080p in 2009
- I also believe I'm going to use whatever equipment I can to make money.
 
Re: February 1st, 2006

- Shannon W. Rawls
Oh......and John....now you know TWO people who owns a Hi Def television.

Is it in your Lexus? ;D
 
Re: February 1st, 2006

[quote author=yellowdog link=board=sony;num=1109628592;start=15#15 date=03/01/05 at 17:20:31]- Shannon W. Rawls
Oh......and John....now you know TWO people who owns a Hi Def television.

Is it in your Lexus? ;D[/quote]

Make that three - and that aint no Lexus ;D

FerrariHD
 
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