FCPX, the 1980 software battles all over again

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As an ex CEO of several software and Internet companies, this whole argument reminds me of the early days of software, 1980s, when "experts" proclaimed that people should learn to use powerful but hard to use tools rather than redo the tools so that they are easy to use and behave as you would expect.

We produced the first WSIWYG word processor and all of the old word processor companies said that people were already expert on their hard to use systems and that they would not give up that expertise to use simpler systems. None of those word processing companies are still significant market factors - none of them.

We went through the same thing when switching from the command line interface of MS-DOS to graphics interfaces of Windows and Mac. People constantly pointed out that the command line was much more powerful if you would just take the time to learn it. No one uses MS-DOS anymore, and even the "expert only" systems based on UNIX command lines, which almost no one reading this will have used, are now housed in LINUIX and OSX graphic interfaces.

Experts will always say to stay with the old and difficult because it is more powerful, but what is more powerful - a system that is used infrequently and only by a few or a easier to use system accessible to the many. And for that future FCPX is powerful, and it makes it easier to focus on the story, not keeping track of countless technical details. Just wait, and you will see that FCPX may be the MS Word of the future, a system that was scorned by the Word Perfect experts but evolved into greatness.

BTW look at all of Apple's software and you will see the same vision behind all of them, accessibility always wins because it follows the inevitable expansion of information.

Information follows the laws of entropy, Shannon's Law, and will expand so that it fills the maximum ecological niches and produces the greatest distribution of information. Expert systems try to go against this, and that is why expert systems always die off.

So when I here someone complain, as are most of the "pro" editing community, that FCPX is bad because it ignores their hard earned expertise I know that they are the same as the word processing experts who fought the introduction of WYSIWYG word processors with graphics interfaces.

Just so you know, I have worked on legal copies of Final Cut from version 3 to FCS3. Will it do more than FCPX - of course it will. But I also see that video is becoming the new media of communication, and that duplicates the revolution that happened when word processors turned everyone into writers. Before that writing was a specialized skill, and now it is expected. Whenever a new communication media starts to become widespread it will move from expert systems to accessible systems that grow in response to the new imperatives of mass communication.

I still do somethings in FCS3, no choice; but I recognize that Adobe and AVID are the same as the word processing companies I dealt with at the beginning of the personal computer revolution. Do not mistake short term advantages for the long term advantage of following a media revolution as it becomes democratized.

I am also a best selling author, and I found that there is still a market for my writing skills, despite the fact that it is now easy for the masses to publish their thoughts online or in print via Lulu.com and its other printing on demand competitors.

Good editing will always win. Only bad editors should be in fear, for as video becomes an instrument of person to person communication there will be lots of talented newcomers. I look forward to seeing their work.

Until then it will be impossible to stop the movement of editing software from expert based systems to accessible systems. Do not think that the masses will ignore EDF or OMF or XML exports, accessible systems will evolve to use those pipelines. The history of software is that systems use more and more interchange pipelines as they become more accessible, and that is their source of ever increasing power.

In the 1980s Steve Jobs tried to purchase my company, and during our talks he gave his vision of how software would inevitably develop to first connect to the masses and then to fill new ecological niches (not his terms). I worked with, and in competition with, Apple during the word processing revolution. AVID and Adobe are like Word Perfect, which was an expert system that dominated word processing in the 1980s and early 1990s but is almost unknown now. The "consumer and prosumer" word processing systems grew to be more powerful because expert based systems are so complex that they are not easily extendible. Dead ends despite their power at this moment.

In the early 1990s, I was part of a group that tried to buy EditDroid, an early editing solution, from George Lucas when he saw that AVID was going to take the first steps to democratization of editing - thankfully he did not sell to us. That system was very powerful, and yet he knew that its days were limited. In our very brief conversation he said that he liked any new tool that took film making from isolated technical experts and gave power to storytellers.

I will occasionally still use FCS3 because it is more powerful for certain things, but the current "expert" based systems will give way to simpler systems with pipelines that let people add utility as needed. I lived through it in the early days of word processing, it is a pattern that ALL software follows.

Look at the response to MS Word, it was scorned by Word Perfect experts, yet which software survived? All of Apple's software follows the same philosophy, accessibility will always win because it is the nature of information to expand into every niche.

More accessible software lets you concentrate on the story, and story always wins. FCPX is a story telling device, not a nerve center that aggregates the results of closeted film experts. It has the force of history on its side.
 
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What in god's name are you talking about? No one gives a rip if FCPX is easier to use, or helps the masses. People care that they are losing an investment in a product which was EOL'ed before it's replacement could do the tasks they NEEDED it to do. It's really that simple.

It's like replacing a typewriter with a word processor that cannot backspace. And then throwing all typewriters in the ocean.

This is not an ease of use issue, it's a "not fit for purpose" issue.
 
As an ex CEO of several software and Internet companies, this whole argument reminds me of the early days of software, 1980s, when "experts" proclaimed that people should learn to use powerful but hard to use tools rather than redo the tools so that they are easy to use and behave as you would expect.

As an ex CEO of several software and Internet companies....

If you make a software like called "Widget Pro" that people use for projects that go on for years, hits version 7, etc... and then decide to discontinue version 7 and sell version 10 in its place... It's a good idea to make sure that version 10 will import the projects from the discontinued version 7. Or else call the software something different. Seriously, it's this kinda stuff that people are pissed about.

How many other pieces of software do you know that keep the same name but can't import from the previous version?

Seriously, I'd like to know. All I can think of is iMovie 08. That's the only example I can manage - and I've been involved in computers since the days of 8-bit.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
I am trying to explain the decision based on Apple's viewpoint. I am not defending the way so many companies felt they were cut off at the throat.
 
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Now that we have some distance from the initial emotional reactions, isn't it really rather obvious what people's course of action should be?

If you need the features that FCP X doesn't have -- do not buy it. Period. End of story. Continue using what you have, or migrate to Avid or Premiere to get the features you need.

If you are an existing FCS 3 user, and FCS 3 does what you need, don't even think about upgrading or migrating. Apple does not provide a migration path for you.

If you are an existing FCS 3 user and FCS 3 doesn't do what you need, you have two choices: Avid or Premiere (or, if they do what you need, EDIUS or Vegas). Note that Premiere, at least, can open FCS 3 projects (unlike FCP X). So there is a migration path for those who need it, to a software program that is committed to providing the features that pros need.

Apple is done with FCS 3. They won't update it, they've terminated it. FCP X is what Apple offers now.

I think Philip makes a lot of good points. For the young'un's, it may be hard to conceive of just how huge and dominant WordPerfect was. Or Lotus. And yes, in general, they have disappeared from today's desktops. And it is very likely (I would say VERY likely) that Avid's and Adobe's share of the pro market will expand, whereas Apple will grab an even bigger share of the prosumer and hobbyist market.

User interface aside, if FCP X doesn't have the features that the pros need, then they will not buy it and they will not use it (which is, I believe, Perrone's point). But pros are a small portion of the market, obviously. And I dare say that there are a whole lot of folks out there who will be able to get along with FCP X just fine, especially at the reduced price.

I don't think Adobe and Avid are going anywhere. I do think Apple has abandoned the top-end pro market. And I think that they'll have a larger overall market share when this is all said and done, by picking up a bigger share of lower-cost folks who don't need the features that are gone from FCS 3 or Avid or Premiere.
 
I am trying to explain the decision based on Apple's viewpoint. I am not defending the way so many companies filet they were cut off at the throat.

Well in the first sentence you were telling us "what the argument was about." With patronizing tone.

"As an ex CEO of several software and Internet companies, this whole argument reminds me of the early days of software, 1980s, when "experts" proclaimed that people should learn to use powerful but hard to use tools rather than redo the tools so that they are easy to use and behave as you would expect."

I think this is a gross mischaracterization and kinda insulting.

I think it's more about fact that what's sold as the new version FCP can't import projects from the old version of FCP than a bunch of experts telling people to use powerful but hard to use tools.

Most professionals would be fine with moving the overall game towards ease of use, even at the expense of power.

You're just creating a straw man argument.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
I think it's more about fact that what's sold as the new version FCP can't import projects from the old version of FCP than a bunch of experts telling people to use powerful but hard to use tools.

www.boacinema.com

If the projects were created in FCS3, then they still can be opened and edited in FCS3 if changes are needed.

Not certain why you would want to edit those programs in FCP X.
 
No, I am not creating a straw man argument. I am talking about the inevitable evolutionary path followed by software. I agree that that marketing and positioning as a FCP successor was horribly managed, but do not let your anger stop you from considering what might be happening. I disagree with Barry, but thank him for the kind words. In the short term AVID and Adobe will dominate the high end collaborative market, but when the proper tools migrate to FCP then it is AVID and Adobe that will face EOL decisions on their software. Do people still use Media100 systems. yes but not many. Lightworks?

Apple decided to step on some toes in order to EVENTUALLY develop an ecosystem that survive into the 2020s. The current versions of Media Composer and Premiere will not, and then everyone will have to suffer the agony of switching. Until then AVID and Adobe will rule the high end market but the technical problem will remain, those systems cannot be extended indefinitely. Even though AVID and Adobe will, as Barry points out, grab larger shares of the the high end pro market they will lose the total volume needed to support proper programming teams. More and more people will produce plugins and addons for FCPX successors because the volume is there. and then that ecosystem will become much more powerful than anything AVID or Adobe can compete with.
 
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If the projects were created in FCS3, then they still can be opened and edited in FCS3 if changes are needed.

Not certain why you would want to edit those programs in FCP X.

1. My entire sound library is in bins, marked with IN points at every hit. That took a long time. I would like to not have to go and mark the hits all over again, categorize stuff all over again, etc.

2. I will often do updates of reels. New projects that have some historical content. I would like to open up my old bins and sequences with everything categorized, selects made, etc. You're telling me I have to use FCS3 (a program you can no longer buy) for any new projects if I want this?

3. If you have a client that wants to pull up an old sequence or bin for reference you can't even do that because FCP X and FCS 3 can't run at the same time.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
I would like to open up my old bins and sequences with everything categorized, selects made, etc. You're telling me I have to use FCS3 (a program you can no longer buy) for any new projects if I want this?

To be clear, I'm not telling you anything.

What I asking is why anyone would want to open a FCS3 project in FCP X.

If you created is FCS3, then open it in FCS3. Nothing to be gained to FCP X.
 
A reminder RIGHT NOW.

I see one more personal comment or attack, then action will be taken against the offenders.

Keep to the topic, and leave every personal comment off the boards.

thanks
 
I can see opening a fc7 project in fcx just to see the differences in the programs with a point of reference of an old project, or to test out new features like smooth cam with rolling shutter reduction on old projects. And once again why limit, and clutter up a desktop, and force you to go through hoops to have the two on the same computer (I know it can be done it's just not simple, which it should be if there is no backwards compatibility).

It's just improper implementation plain and simple, and at the level apple is at this should not happen, it's kind of embarrassing, and defending it.... I just don't understand. Now defending the potential that is in FCX I can understand, it's just not there for most of us now and as has been said it seems to be moving away from the high end. Considering how long some stuck with FC hoping the new update would bring it back up to snuff with the other editors, and now they find out that apple is moving in another direction i can understand peoples frustration.

Play nice, and have a nice day!
 
To be clear again, I'm not defending anything.

But what the exchange in this brand new thread, altogether too personal, is same tired horse beating stories that been posted here and elsewhere for nearly a month now.

People have their positions; many if not every angle has been aired; most thoughtful people agree that there were mistakes, some very serious, made, but it's time to consider moving on.

Barry has indicated repeatedly, as have I and others, that there are alternatives to FCP X on both platforms, and time to implement changes in your workflow if FCP X doesn't float your boat.

But endless pickering about it, now in its fourth week isn't producing any new information as far as I can see.
 
To be clear, I'm not telling you anything.

What I asking is why anyone would want to open a FCS3 project in FCP X.

If you created is FCS3, then open it in FCS3. Nothing to be gained to FCP X.

The reasons I gave were:

- because a FCS3 project contains an editor's sorted sound library, with marked in points etc

- because while working on a FCPX project, a client might want you to refer to something from an old FCS3 project you did for them
(this would be fine if you could open FCS3 and FCPX at the same time, but Apple stops you from doing this)

- because often you update projects etc years over year. Then you have a choice if you want to stay with Apple:
a) do I do the 2012 reel in FCP 7? But what if the client wants me to do a flashback to stuff from 2012 reel when we're doing the 2016 reel? FCP 7 really will be antiquated then
b) or do it in FCP X - then I lose everything now

Now defending the potential that is in FCX I can understand
Totally. Everyone sees the potential in FCX. Unsure why defending its potential needs to be mixed in with "folks who are anti-FCPX remind me of folks in the 80s who fought against ease of use" which is kinda distracting.

Why not just find a position that people can agree on - that there are a lot of good things in FCX that folks can agree on - and that its influence will be seen in the future versions of likely most editing apps.

And leave all of the "you guys are wrong" stuff out of it? Because I think there is a strong core that everyone agrees on (I'd guess 90% of the people who are anti-FCPX probably like the general direction and want to go there, they just hate the specific implementation).

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
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That's why these type of threads produce just heat and no light.

Everybody is for an open discussion just so long as you agreed with them.
 
To be clear again, I'm not defending anything.

But what the exchange in this brand new thread, altogether too personal, is same tired horse beating stories that been posted here and elsewhere for nearly a month now.

People have their positions; many if not every angle has been aired; most thoughtful people agree that there were mistakes, some very serious, made, but it's time to consider moving on.

Barry has indicated repeatedly, as have I and others, that there are alternatives to FCP X on both platforms, and time to implement changes in your workflow if FCP X doesn't float your boat.

But endless pickering about it, now in its fourth week isn't producing any new information as far as I can see.

There might be useful points that some people want to discuss but this mentality is telling people to complain or shut up. A discussion group works only when there is mutual respect and the threads are buried in the same comments that are true but act as an "denial of service" attack as practiced by hackers who shut down websites by flooding them with many copies of the same data.

My fear is that if this continues will any project edited on FCPX be automatically rejected, and the FCPX users will be blackballed. If not then please let us explore FCPX, and let the power of the community create new powerful paradigms to drive video creation.

I have spent the past week exploring FCPX, and found some undocumented things. But this mentality is not the atmosphere where there is free sharing of ideas. It is a shame that I started out, as the OP, talking about things that might happen in a few years and I ended up is this discussion.
 
If the projects were created in FCS3, then they still can be opened and edited in FCS3 if changes are needed.

Not certain why you would want to edit those programs in FCP X.

Because they are not 'programs'. They are projects. The fact that one can not 'open up one's projects', but must start from scratch, should have been a sign... nay a road lined with signs, that Apple has no interest in what ever projects have been done before.

But the more obvious reason why an 'legacy' import is not available... it would only point out how much is lacking in FCP X.

And this is why I think at its core, the use of FCP is disingenuous at best. By appealing to that set of letters, in that order, the current users of Final Cut Pro interpreted the new product as an extension, enhancement, a product filled with new 'technology' to fill in the potholes that had begun to show in whatever previous version of FCP they were using.

So, what has happened is those users who have a significant commitment to whatever FCP was, have been grossly short changed by the new wonder widget.

Apple could have named the product iMovie Pro, and who was the audience would have been clear.

As for Microsoft Word, vs Word Perfect... I never liked either of them... troff with m4 macros was far superior to either of those 'wysiswyg' not withstanding...

I could only imagine what the outcry would be, if Microsoft announced for its Word customers, that Word X will not open up Word <prior> documents, but perhaps a 3rd party vendor will supply some XML widgetry, once XML import has been added to Word X... some time soon...

Heck, I bet Word Perfect would rise from the ashes in such a case... Corel would be especially grateful in any case.
 
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