FCP: 24p vs 24pa

S

scipceva

Member
I've read a few different threads now discussing challenges with 24pa editing inn FCP (especially if one intends to include 60i slow motion footage). Rather than at the problem point, I'm trying to decided whether to shoot in 24p or 20pa on my dvx100b, given that I will be editing in FCP, including slow motion footage, and will be primarily distributing on DVD and the web.

Any advice?
 
Barry,
I know this topic has been a source of quite a bit of discussion, but would you care to elaborate? I thought I remember in another post that it was stated that if you plan on using 60i with 24p it was recommended you shoot 24p. I thought 24pa was for just if you plan on using solely 24p. I am new to both the dvx100 and FCP, and I had the same question. I love the look of 24p and plan to add in some 60i. Also what timeline do you recommend? Thank you for your time.
 
If you want to include your 60i footage into your timeline for 24pa you have to jump through a few more hoops. When discussing slowmotion, using a 24fps timeline (for 24pa footage) would be more effective, as the 60 individual frames (when the fields are separated) per second will slow down by 40% as opposed to the 50% that would be achieved when editing in a 30fps timeline (used for 24p footage). I personally recommend, however, that you go through the process of making your 60i footage into 60 separate frames when working with either a 24fps timeline or a 30fps timeline. Even if you aren't planning on using slowmotion with 60i and just want to integrate, I suggest you go through that process.
If you want a PDF file of a step by step process to change your 60i footage to 24p (for a 24fps timeline) then PM me with your email and I can send it to you.

I hope this helps, but I know that Barry will shed his great knowledge with you. I would go with anything he says over anything I said haha.

NOTE: When I refer to 24fps I mean 23.93; 30fps I mean 29.97

EDIT: To speculate as to why Barry says 24pa no question, I think it is because you are trying to simulate film as much as possible and working on the same timeline and framerate as film gets you acquainted and then you know how to use 24pa footage for the future.
 
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You want 24pA any time you're planning to edit in 24p, especially in FCP. By using 24p "with" 60i, you indicate that you're planning to use the 60i for slo-mo, in which case you're converting it to 24p. Therefore, you want to edit on a 24p timeline. You want 24pA.

You only want to shoot 24p standard if you're planning to edit on a 60i timeline. You'd do that if you want to keep the 60i *as* 60i, or if you're mixing with 30p and aren't using the 30p for slo-mo.
 
Jaimebailon said:
if you want to use 60i for slow motion you should convert it to 23.98 with cinema tools
Click to expand...

OK, my Mac isn't accessible right now; does Cinema Tools allow you to slow the footage when you make the coversion? If not, you don't want to convert it before you slow it. If you do, you lose all the benefit of having shot 60i for slo-mo.
 
David Jimerson said:
OK, my Mac isn't accessible right now; does Cinema Tools allow you to slow the footage when you make the coversion? If not, you don't want to convert it before you slow it. If you do, you lose all the benefit of having shot 60i for slo-mo.
Click to expand...

I thought you'd have to shoot in 60i to get sufficiently smooth slow motion. Does anyone know the answer to David's question on the Cinema Tools conversion. If I can achieve a quality-comparable slo mo in Cinema Tools, it sounds like I might not need to shoot 60i for slo mo (and instead could shoot 24pa). Is this right?
 
You need to shoot in 60i and then use compessor to export your footage. Then you bring it in with cinema tools and conform it to 23.93. This makes your slow motion in 40% speed because what was 60 frames per second becomes 23.93.

i just uploaded a tutorial PDF file that someone sent me a while ago. download it here
http://www.bbanksfilms.com/slowmotiontutorial.pdf
right click and save as

i used this method and it worked really well
 
scipceva said:
I thought you'd have to shoot in 60i to get sufficiently smooth slow motion.
Click to expand...

That's exactly it. If you covert it to 23.976 before you slow it, you're then effectively slowing 24p footage and will run into the same problems you shot 60i to avoid. And it'll be lower-resolution to boot -- the worst of all worlds.

What you need to do is slow it while it's still 60i. When you slow it to 40%, you then line up each 60i field with a 24p frame (on the timeline), and thus you make a full frame from each motion sample and there's no temporal interpolation needed; it only needs to make a full frame out of each field. It's the smoothest possible slo-mo.
 
I am curious has anyone tried this. If you shoot 60i and slow it down in post and export as QT. Then run the footage through DV filmmaker (http://www.dvfilm.com/maker/index.htm) to convert the 60i footage to 24P. Wouldn't this perform the same slow motion tasks that banksie shows in his pdf? Probably in a shorter amount of time. The only reason I ask is, I am shooting off road racing video and the action is non stop. I love the look of 24p but I am certain that I will need to shoot 60i to capture it all. There is no set shot that I would want slo mo in. I would decide that in post and after viewing the footage. So it may be easier to shoot 60i and convert it to 24p after the fact. Any thought or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
So where I'm confused is can you put slo-mo 60i footage on the same timeline in Adobe PremiereCS3 as 24pa footage. I use this technique to conform 60i to 24p.

http://rarevision.com/v1/articles/slow_motion.php

Once I have the slo mo footage I can't put it back in a 24pa (23.976) timeline without it looking like trash. Quality is simply lost.

The slomo footage of course looks great on a 29.97 timeline but then you can't add the 24pa footage to that timeline. Quality loss with the 23.976 footage.

I read through the posts but I guess I'm still not sure how to overcome this problem. If someone mentioned it above I apologize but its something I am trying to figure out with a current project. Thanks guys!

Alex
 
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