FAQ Fast tele zoom or prime: a hard choice

moldcad

moldcad

Veteran
I guess time has come for a longer reaching, fast lens for portrait-type of shooting. Price apart, I'm having a hard time trying to decide between:

- a zoom, like the Canon 70-200mm F2.8
- a prime, like the Samyang Premium XP 85mm F1.2

Needless to say I can't afford both of them :(

Add to it that whichever of the above (or similar) lens I choose, it needs to work with my two Speed Boosters so that I can use it on my FS7/A7Rii as well as on my GH5. From the Metabones website I know at least that the Canon does work with both versions of Speed Booster I have, but how about the Samyang (well, it's not AF so this might make it easier)....

Tough choice,, isn't it - therefore, whoever knows whatever on the subject, please speak up to help me make up my mind :)

Piotr

PS. Oh, and is the difference between the Canon in its two incarnations worth the price difference in your opinion?
 
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Get the Canon for its flexibility especially if you already have a speed booster - though I would have a standard adapter also for when you want more reach. The series II is much sharper and worth the money for 4K especially.
Its my GoTo lens for interviews unless I'm in a very small room and need a fast f1.4 50mm or 85mm.
 
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Seems like the lenses do different jobs..

85 does not get u much reach but is more good maybe for sit down set ups or drama/reconstruction/adverts.

70-200 is better for an event/performance where u need to change framing or get reach

70-200 is also a beast to carry about and eats bag space and may also need supporting on your rig with resultant delays in lens changes*

I like 70-200/4 unless you specifically do dark (concert) coverage.

Personally I'd go with an 85/2 prime and a 70-200/4??

(or of course some proper glass being old manual used lenses or of course expensive cine glass.. what about that stigma 50-150??)

You can't actually hold focus at 85 1.4 so it is pointless.

All kids buy 70-200 2.8 and 85 1.2 then grow into the smaller more practical lenses.

*Before you were posting about a matte box.. rods long enough for 70-200+mattebox may be seen if you swing to a wide lens.
 
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By "portrait-type of shooting", do you mean sit-down interviews? If so, my two most used focal lengths/lenses for those situations are the Canon CN-E 85 T1.3 and 135 T2.2. I also have the 70-200 2.8 L IS II. I owned this lens for stills first. I can't say that I ever use IS shooting video, because you're usually fighting against it.

The 70-200 2.8 is a great lens, but I rarely use it for interviews, now, especially in single subject situations. Now if I need to go back and forth between two subjects or get the camera further back, that's a different story.
 
OK guys - I have no plans for using AF much (if at all - only when some special circumstances call for it), so please tell me: how is the focus-by-wire on the Canon 70-200 F2.8 mk2 in manual mode? With mu current 2 Canons I have (the 16-35 and 24-70mm F4.0) it's really good; not too much throw (certainly shorter than on my Sony 28-135mm kit lens in its "mechanical" mode) but even without hard stops on the Canons, focusing manually is much better than on any other AF native E or MFT lenses I have.

As to what I'd need those lenses for - please don't ask me; the Canon 70-200 is probably the most universal zoom out there, and with F2.8 speed boosted with Metabones it will surely be extremely useful. As to the manual 85 F1.2 prime - well, it's going to be so fast that I'll also find some - hmm..."artistic purposes" of using it. Sure thing that the Canon being so flexible and universal, it should come first - but those special purposes of using the super-fast prime are so tempting... The only thing I'd be missing with this lens is OIS - but with such shallow DoF, I'll probably be using it on the tripod anyway...

Piotr

PS. Would it make sense to save some money and buy the 70-200 F2.8 Tamron or Sigma? Anyone used them?
 
The Canon is not a focus-by-wire system(like the EF 85 1.2 L), you have mechanical control over the focus. Now, it does not have hard stops like a manual Cine or ENG lens, it still has a "clutch" type system that will allow the focus ring to spin past the close and far limits, but it's not fly-by-wire.
 
The mf on the canon is ok.. But just not like a proper manual lens.

Also they vary a lot with age condition and maybe model to model
 
I prefer the Canon 70-200 2.8 L II. To me, it's tack sharp at all focal lengths, enough to rival many primes out there. It's pretty easy to manual focus with by hand and works well with a follow focus.

I have several lenses, but I could easily shoot the majority of my projects with only three: the 16-35 2.8 L III, the 24-70 2.8 L II and this 70-200 2.8 L II IS we are talking about today.

I say go for it.
 
moldcad said:
I guess time has come for a longer reaching, fast lens for portrait-type of shooting. Price apart, I'm having a hard time trying to decide between:

- a zoom, like the Canon 70-200mm F2.8
- a prime, like the Samyang Premium XP 85mm F1.2

Needless to say I can't afford both of them :(
Click to expand...

Other options:

Older, third party, or f4 zooms instead:

Nikon 80-200 f2.8D
Tokina 70-200 f4
Tamron 70-200 f2.8


Rokinon / Samyang from their SLR series (I'd recommend Nikon F mount, but Canon EF mount is an ok ish compromise), such as:

Rokinon 135mm f2 or Rokinon 85mm f1.4


You could then likely afford BOTH primes and one of the zooms, for less than what the single Canon zoom costs.
 
Canon 70-200mm f/2.8, important that it's the Mk II version, it's significantly sharper (or perhaps less prone to the IS group going out of whack, common thing on Mk I version). I would not think twice.
 
There are of course issues with all of those zooms for really accurate focus work . One thing I've noticed is that when you change direction on the barrel of virtually all Canon 70-200's I've checked as well as the Nikon 80-200 f2.8 the image will slightly shift focus. I didn't notice it for a long time but in practice it hasn't been a problem, especially for portrait work. That 80-200 f2.8 Nikon is a great lens at a good price, but then you have to get Nikon adapters and it focuses in the wrong direction etc. The Rokinon 85 1.4 is pretty good for the price, but maybe not great at 1.4 and since the Nikon can go to f2 with the speed booster.....
 
Thanks guys for your valuable opinion; unfortunately I suffer seriously from OCD :( so only the best is an option for me... Therefore it will be the Canon 70-20mm F2.8 mk2, I just have to find a good financing option. Will keep you posted!

Piotr
 
Sir.

The best is a very variable concept.

Yes it is sharp and has a good range (apart from minimum focus)

The lens is ok - the mf is not great - they fall apart - and it is big and heavy.

Other options will focus better and be easier to manage.

I may remind you we have three of these lenses* in our company not to mention Nikon versions and many primes and old zooms

Never has that lens gone out on a video job.

*well either in the office or back at canon getting the IS mended!
 
Thanks for the warnings, Sam - I guess there is no lens without any disadvantages/faults, as with any other product. But the 70-200 will complement my two other Canon zooms nicely (the 16-35 and 24-70), and granted I already have Speed Boosters for both my Sony and Pana (GH5) cameras, I'm sure mine will see many video jobs :) Not to forget that with my A7Rii originally bought as a B-cam for the FS7 but quickly becoming mainly my stills camera (as the GH5 proved to be a much better FS7's companion, mainly thanks to its 10bit 422 color), I can already imagine using the 70-200mm Canon as my stills photography tool... Yes - with Speed Booster added it's going to be quite heavy, but with my physical limitation the "heavy" had to be re-defined anyway - and a better part of my gigs is with the tripod, anyway. And with the tripod, I couldn't care less about a particular lens' weight (which doesn't mean I'd probably use it hand-held from time to time, just as I'm using my FS7's kit lens, the also quite heavy Sony 28-135mm -
finally showing its Full Frame potential on the A7Rii). Cheers,

Piotr
 
It is an excellent stills lens. For video it seems costly etc. But simple with a canon set for sure.

I don't knew why you don't try some old glass - contax or canon fd.
 
My experience is that every time I owned a super Tele zoom I almost never used them it’s usually a lens you end up leaving in the car. I find that getting a very sharp prime around 135mm f2 in combo with SB and Center crop ends up being more useful. I would go with a rokinon cine 135mm t2 its around usd 500 it’s very very sharp long manual focus and aperture and size/weight Weise similar to your canon zooms.
 
Do you mean 100mm f/2.8 or 135mm T2. 2? Both are much cheaper than the XP version, which makes me doubt their IQ wide open (the XP is reported tad sharp from 1.2 on)...

Piotr
 
So no EXIF is common with Samyang lenses? If so, the XP 85 F1. 2 looks even more interesting now ; it's still MF but with no aperture ring, it must communicate with the camera, right?

Piotr
 
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