Face detect amazing -- and useless?

E

Eithcowich

Active member
I experimented with the face detect yesterday. It's amazing, both for Primary (face) and All (faces.) It even recognized a face on the other side of the street with the lens (14-140) at wide angle. It focused on the faces beautifully.

Here's the problem: with every movement of myself, or the subject there were subtle changes in light and the auto-iris wouldn't stop hunting for it. And since on the 14-140 the iris changes in perceptible grades the footage is basically impossible to use, at least without serious, and I'm sure expensive post work.

Any ideas how to improve on this would be greatly appreciated!
 
Any chance a firmware update will allow it to work with manual iris? That would make the af100 so much closer to a run and gun machine. Without it, on a bright day and while in movement, there's just no way to set focus. At least I can't see any.
 
wow I thought that in some documentary situations the auto Face detection could be of help but if you have to go into auto iris as well then forget it. What was Panasonic thinking or did some one say hey lets just take this cool thing from their consumer cam and throw it in the mix. I thought the AF100 was to be a true Pro camera now with the lcd screen which can not be adjusted for color and a crippled run and gun feature I am wondering (hoping) will Panasonic release a pro camera with a large sensor, P2 cards , full control of viewing screen .... With Sony coming out with a s35mm Camera to compete with the AF100 then maybe Panasonic will soon have a full bore Camera to go up against Sony's F3. Yes we will have to pay more but it seem that the Af100 is more like a AG150 than a HVX170. Do not get me wrong for the price both the AG150 and the AF100 are unbeatable and will create great images especially when one has time to control the lighting I would just like to have the choice of a camera with more latitude and lower single to noise and a large sensor that records to on board P2 cards using Avc-Intra, If Panasonic came out with a camera like that at NAB I and many others would be extremely happy. One can always dream (but I am not holding my breath) P.S. Nothing I have ranted about here should in any way be take away as a slam of the AF100 (or AG150) for the price nothing even comes close to what this camera can do and I am sure that when sony comes out with their S35mm camera to compete it will be far less of a camera than the AF100.
 
Welcome to marketing 101. Any serious filmmaker would never engage a feature like that anyway. It happens in every industry, the marketing department dictate what will sell and the engineers are asked to at least include those (even useless) features. Just look at the ridiculous megapixel race. We have already surpasses the optimal density of a sensor for quality and yet they still try to cram more and introduce noise and artifacts. No wonder pictures these days look so plasticy with excessive noise reduction. A good follow focus and practice will be the best investment with excellent returns.
 
This is just me, but especially in a run and gun situation, I would never want to rely on auto anything. I always on the dvx,Hvx, and this camera, have relied on manual controls. With my nikon d3... that's a different story:)


Eithcowich said:
Any chance a firmware update will allow it to work with manual iris? That would make the af100 so much closer to a run and gun machine. Without it, on a bright day and while in movement, there's just no way to set focus. At least I can't see any.
Click to expand...
 
Whats up with auto iris anyways? Is it tied to the iris of the lens? Can a lens manufacturer make a lens that adjusts in more undetectable increments for smoother iris control? Or is auto iris by nature changing the light in distracting jumps? Is it the cam, or the lens? What do we blame?
 
Yak said:
wow I thought that in some documentary situations the auto Face detection could be of help but if you have to go into auto iris as well then forget it. What was Panasonic thinking or did some one say hey lets just take this cool thing from their consumer cam and throw it in the mix. I thought the AF100 was to be a true Pro camera now with the lcd screen which can not be adjusted for color and a crippled run and gun feature I am wondering (hoping) will Panasonic release a pro camera with a large sensor, P2 cards , full control of viewing screen .... With Sony coming out with a s35mm Camera to compete with the AF100 then maybe Panasonic will soon have a full bore Camera to go up against Sony's F3. Yes we will have to pay more but it seem that the Af100 is more like a AG150 than a HVX170. Do not get me wrong for the price both the AG150 and the AF100 are unbeatable and will create great images especially when one has time to control the lighting I would just like to have the choice of a camera with more latitude and lower single to noise and a large sensor that records to on board P2 cards using Avc-Intra, If Panasonic came out with a camera like that at NAB I and many others would be extremely happy. One can always dream (but I am not holding my breath) P.S. Nothing I have ranted about here should in any way be take away as a slam of the AF100 (or AG150) for the price nothing even comes close to what this camera can do and I am sure that when sony comes out with their S35mm camera to compete it will be far less of a camera than the AF100.
Click to expand...

Here's the skinny on the Sony S35mm. I'm not that impressed especially the price point they are thinking. At that price you'd think they could at least do 1080p at 60FPS. I'm having a blast with the AF100. I'm shooting narrative so auto focus and all the face detect stuff does not affect me. I went to a camera show yesterday and bought a bunch of lenses and adaptors for cheap and the images are really great. I'm also going to either get the Atmos Ninja recorder or take the plunge and get the Nano Flash. Either way it's way more inexpensive than the Sony. Check out the info below on the Sony.

The new PMW-F3K camcorder uses Sony's Exmor Super35 CMOS sensor, putting a true "film look" and superior image quality into the hands of filmmakers, broadcasters, and for use in other applications. The camera features 23.98p native recording, PL mount adapter for compatibility with 35mm cine lenses, over-cranking and under-cranking from 1-30fps at 1080p and 1-60fps at 720p, a 3.5" Color LCD that uses transmissive and reflective panels for clear viewing even in direct sunlight, and compatibility with Sxs Pro and SxS-1A memory cards. An optional adapter will also allow the use of MS or SD memory cards. At this point Sony has tentatively announced pricing to be around $28,850 (U.S.) for the kit with three lenses (F3K) and $20,195 (U.S.) for the body only (F3L).
 
sstanek said:
Here's the skinny on the Sony S35mm. I'm not that impressed especially the price point they are thinking. At that price you'd think they could at least do 1080p at 60FPS. I'm having a blast with the AF100. I'm shooting narrative so auto focus and all the face detect stuff does not affect me. I went to a camera show yesterday and bought a bunch of lenses and adaptors for cheap and the images are really great. I'm also going to either get the Atmos Ninja recorder or take the plunge and get the Nano Flash. Either way it's way more inexpensive than the Sony. Check out the info below on the Sony.

The new PMW-F3K camcorder uses Sony's Exmor Super35 CMOS sensor, putting a true "film look" and superior image quality into the hands of filmmakers, broadcasters, and for use in other applications. The camera features 23.98p native recording, PL mount adapter for compatibility with 35mm cine lenses, over-cranking and under-cranking from 1-30fps at 1080p and 1-60fps at 720p, a 3.5" Color LCD that uses transmissive and reflective panels for clear viewing even in direct sunlight, and compatibility with Sxs Pro and SxS-1A memory cards. An optional adapter will also allow the use of MS or SD memory cards. At this point Sony has tentatively announced pricing to be around $28,850 (U.S.) for the kit with three lenses (F3K) and $20,195 (U.S.) for the body only (F3L).
Click to expand...

Why do we need to rip on other cameras to make the AF100 better somehow? First off,
this is old information. The pricing is way off, much too high. Look on B&H for the REAL
pricing.....for example it is $13,300 NOT $20,195 for the F3 body only. More expensive
than the AF100? For sure! What it shoots, looks better too, as it should for a camera
that costs 2 and a half times more! As always, the quality of the glass makes a big difference
here as well. But, we have different price points, different features, different
markets! But both great cameras for the markets they serve. The AF100 is great all on it's
own, no need to build it up by tearing down another great camera, that quite frankly, because
of price and features, is in a whole different market than the AF100.
 
I have no issue with Panasonic adding more features to the AF100.. but when adding something like "Face Detection" requires more resources and less attention on aliasing and resolution, then I would say it's useless.
 
bgundu said:
For the record, I feel the AF100 has far exceeded my expectations for aliasing and resolution.
Click to expand...

On the GH2, if you go into Shutter priority, set your shutter at 1/50sec, the use face detection for focus and get your exposure right, iso-aperture etc you then hit ae lock and your exposure and shutter and aperture(iris) is locked, the only thing going on is face detect auto focus, everything else is locked? is there no ae lock and shutter priority on the af100?

Come to think of it, its the same for all the Creative movie modes, especially if you go full Manual? face detect is as much an af as an ae feature?
 
Last edited:
I just shot an event with the AF100 using face detection. Wow! Worked great for this use. The speaker moved around constantly and the camera tracked him perfectly using the 14-140mm lens. The room was evenly lit and I did not detect a change in the iris that was distracting. For this use, it was a big help. Would I use it normally, absolutely not. But I was shocked at how well it performed the task in this case. It would be nice if face detection worked without the auto exposure function having to be on. Perhaps this could be addressed in an update.

I also shot at 9db of gain and found the grain perfectly acceptable. Very clean. When you need it, it is there. Rather like the focus bar and the exposure lines, which on first bluish seemed stupid, but they are quite useful. More information is better.
 
I'v been playing with face detection for a while now... please can we have the option to disable the "Auto Iris" on face detection
I'm thinking steadicam use..
 
My problem is that I actually want to use the AF100's face detection feature but, for the life of me, can't seem to get it to work -- even though the LCD displays confirms that it's "on." I've been through both Panasonic user manuals and the accompanying Barry Green book and set everything I can as per the instructions, including "face framing set to "primary." I'm using the Panasonic 14-140 lens that delivers both auto exposure and auto focus to the AF100 and I have both auto-focus and auto-iris enabled. I can sure enough turn "face detection" "on" via the SW User1 menu and my LCD display confirms it but I never see the yellow frame around the primary face or any face. Nor does focus follow any face. The center focus "cross" simply auto-focuses on whatever is in the center of the frame. Even with face detection "on," as soon as I move the face to the side of the frame, the camera auto-focuses on whatever is there and ignores the face. What am I doing wrong?
 
AF100 Face Detection

AF100 Face Detection

Answering my own question, I figured out (with no referenced help from the user manuals) that the Function Knob must be set to "INH" (which for some reason stands for "No function assigned") in order for the Face Detection yellow square to become visible on the LCD, even though the Function Knob is disabled whenever Face Detection is turned on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top