F5: F55/F5 Version 3 is out

scocklin

scocklin

Well-known member
Version 3; Cine EI (without R5 recorder), MLUTS for F5, AES audio, center scan, I'm new to the F5 and it is taking awhile to get my head around all of these new features. S-Log 3 for RAW recording has a white paper coming out in January, I wonder, is Sony is going to come out with a look that will match Alexa? Is it possible?
 
scocklin said:
Version 3; Cine EI (without R5 recorder), MLUTS for F5, AES audio, center scan, I'm new to the F5 and it is taking awhile to get my head around all of these new features. S-Log 3 for RAW recording has a white paper coming out in January, I wonder, is Sony is going to come out with a look that will match Alexa? Is it possible?
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I have a discussion thread placeholder I made for everything SLog3 over on the Sony forum, but at first blush it looks like Sony might have taken a tip or two from Arri.

First thing I'm noticing with SLog3 is that it looks like it's designed to be exposed by eye. It's a good stop or two brighter than S-Log2. I think if that's the case that it's funny, since we now have proper LUTs in-camera to avoid such pratfalls, but that's Sony for you.

I plan on spending a good portion of today shooting some SLog3 and seeing what it looks like on the scopes. Unfortunately though, it's tough to get a real handle on it though because there's no official LUTs or an IDT for ACES yet.
 
Well, here's one thing I've noticed pretty quickly:

Shoot SLog3/S-Gamut3, expose with any of the 709 LUTs/Looks in camera, and then slap an Alexa LUT on it yields a very nice image.

I have yet to test this with skin tones, but pretty interesting.
 
Nate, have you tried using any of the monitor LUT's/Looks (Look 1 or 2 specifically) while shooting Slog2/S-gamut, exposing by eye with it as of you were shooting a 709 image and is the resulting Slog clip properly underexposed at 33% when you bring it in to post? So in theory if you once again apply say Look profile #1 in resolve it should match what you were seeing in your viewfinder when you shot it. This is all non-RAW shooting Im referring to.

I'd be testing this myself right now but Im away for the holidays. Thanks Nate!..
 
I haven't done anything by the numbers or a scope yet, but I shot a little SLog2 with viewing LUT and brought into Resolve w/LUT, and everything seemed to match up exposure-wise. Just as you'd expect.

Finally!

I don't love the Sony look file/LUTs enough to get nitty-gritty with them, but since I have to use them in-camera as a guide, if they appear to match then I myself am all good!
 
One note:

The in-camera 709+Cine "look" seems to be much more contrasty than the LUT Sony distributed a few months back.

I'm guessing there was an error in the look file's generation before it went into the firmware.

I'm excited about the look files, it appears that the have some or most of the functionality of a 3D LUT, but I opened Raw Viewer (2.0.1) last night and I couldn't figure out how to generate a look to be used in camera. With time, I suppose.

I was afraid the built in LUTs and looks would look crappy. I don't need to have yet another explanation discussion with a director (or DP) on set about how the live image isn't the final result, and how they differ.
 
scocklin said:
Version 3; Cine EI (without R5 recorder), MLUTS for F5, AES audio, center scan, I'm new to the F5 and it is taking awhile to get my head around all of these new features. S-Log 3 for RAW recording has a white paper coming out in January, I wonder, is Sony is going to come out with a look that will match Alexa? Is it possible?
Click to expand...

F5/F55 is the gift that keeps on giving.

V4 already announced with plans of cache recording in several modes, interval recording (I truly missed this from the F3), HDMI 2.0 support, and more...

EDIT: And finally damn MLUTs for the slog2, and man they will be 3D not only 1D like on the F3.
 
Nate Weaver said:
I haven't done anything by the numbers or a scope yet, but I shot a little SLog2 with viewing LUT and brought into Resolve w/LUT, and everything seemed to match up exposure-wise. Just as you'd expect.

Finally!

I don't love the Sony look file/LUTs enough to get nitty-gritty with them, but since I have to use them in-camera as a guide, if they appear to match then I myself am all good!
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That's fantastic to hear, yes Finally!

I never had a problem while shooting s-log but to no longer have to constantly explain to those who matter on set why its looks the way it does is awesome. I usually exposed via light meter but to now be able to "wing it" by eye while looking at a 709 preview will make fast shooting situations that much easier. ...and might prevent a lot of people who never grasped the rule of exposing at 33% from inadvertantly over exposing S-log material.
 
Nate Weaver said:
Also, S-Log3 is legal levels. No more worrying about blacks or highlights getting clipped in FCPX or Premiere.
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That's really good news! It's one of the Alexa's least mentioned but most helpful features IMO, really simplifies things in post.
 
Great, looking forward to Sony releasing s-log3 for the F3 next! (A guy can hope at least!)

Seriously though, why can't they just throw us loyal F3 users a frickin bone? I mean an upgraded gamma curve shouldn't be a problem. It's not like I'm asking for a hardware limited feature here like 120fps.

me--> :crybaby:
 
Good to see the F5/55 owners, especially the ones who were previously F3 owners, to be getting decent value for their camera purchase. I am beginning to see the upside of staging out the firmware improvements. These cameras won't seem like yesterday's news at NAB 2014.

AES (digital) audio is a huge benefit for these cameras. You can now ask for an AES feed from your Soundman/operator and not have to deal necessarily with scratch tracks. It also further differentiates the F series from RED cameras that haven't really treated audio all that seriously.

If you have decent microphones like the MKH Sennheiser series or Schoeps mics, Sound Devices makes mixers that have AES outs. The cheapest one is the MixPre-D. A used 442 has four AES outputs as well.

I'm surprised no one has posted center scanned footage yet!
 
scocklin said:
here is a center scan test done by Doug Jensen, from the Sony PMW F55/F5 fourm

https://vimeo.com/82808203
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That was an interesting comment that Doug made. Using center scan you double the focal length with no light loss. Take your 85mm T1.5 and have 170mm field of view and still have T1.5 for evening sports and wildlife shots (among others.) Maybe a zombie flick with one small battery operated LED light or moon light.

I know I tried a POV zombie test with a Hero 3 and it was just not good enough in low light.
 
Andrew Stone said:
Good to see the F5/55 owners, especially the ones who were previously F3 owners, to be getting decent value for their camera purchase. I am beginning to see the upside of staging out the firmware improvements. These cameras won't seem like yesterday's news at NAB 2014.

AES (digital) audio is a huge benefit for these cameras. You can now ask for an AES feed from your Soundman/operator and not have to deal necessarily with scratch tracks. It also further differentiates the F series from RED cameras that haven't really treated audio all that seriously.

If you have decent microphones like the MKH Sennheiser series or Schoeps mics, Sound Devices makes mixers that have AES outs. The cheapest one is the MixPre-D. A used 442 has four AES outputs as well.

I'm surprised no one has posted center scanned footage yet!
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I'm really pumped about AES as well. I've been planning on a Tascam DR-680 8 channel recorder so I can record sound separately when needed, but it also has digital out so in theory can be used as a quasi mixer with the digital audio feed going straight into the F55 for when I want "sound on tape" for fast delivery.

I will be posting some test footage tomorrow with full and centre scan and will be sure to post a link. From everything I've seen so far it looks like Sony has literally cropped the full 4k sensor without odd tricks, so it should be clean and alias free (unlike HFR).
 
You probably know this but the DR-680 does not do timecode, however there is always Plural Eyes or a clapper if you go this route.
 
Dennis, I dont have my camera here so I'll ask you. Shouldnt center scan 2k HFR be as alias free as when shooting 24/25?
Also, correct me but you can not shoot in HD when center scan is selected, only 2K?..

To comment on what Duke just said, if the center scan image is just a hair softer then full scan, all of your lenses just doubled, no pun intended. For instance, my Nikon 17-55 2.8, when I need more reach can effectively become a 34-110 at the flip of a switch with not much of a penalty. So much for that 24-70 I was thinking about buying.
 
Fotojorno said:
To comment on what Duke just said, if the center scan image is just a hair softer then full scan,
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To me it's a bit more than "a hair softer", but I'm sure others will disagree.

Also, noise is much bigger, so if you're in a borderline situation where noise was becoming an issue (i.e. night exterior) watch out. The OG Red One bit me like this my first time out with it, doing 2K at 100fps on a night exterior.

I think if you're doing work for web and have plenty of light, you'll be ok.
 
Nate Weaver said:
To me it's a bit more than "a hair softer", but I'm sure others will disagree.

Also, noise is much bigger, so if you're in a borderline situation where noise was becoming an issue (i.e. night exterior) watch out. The OG Red One bit me like this my first time out with it, doing 2K at 100fps on a night exterior.

I think if you're doing work for web and have plenty of light, you'll be ok.
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Red center scan was a mess, however the F55 images seem less noisy in general than Red so I'm eagerly awaiting Dennis's tests without the OPLF. I'll be surprised if the images are softer, but I've been suprised before. (Obviously the ones with OPLF are softer.)
 
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