F5: F5 What is missing?

M

morgan_moore

Major Contributor
Im on the fence about the F5,and F55. To some extent the imager seems fantastic, but the camera leaves a lot to be desired.

Any thoughts on this stuff? And if it will come in Firmware.

The stuff I would want in a 'pro' camera (and I think is available in some ENG cams?)

-Audio pots (ie one of the six buttons assigned to make the pot audio)

-Pre Roll

- Luts (if shooting Slog XAVCHD I think the monitor needs a LUT or three)

-WFM (WFM displays the core log/Raw even if a LUT is on the monitor)

-qualty of 2k raw skipped? binned or supersampled?

-HF socket move to XLR box or similar

-E-mount to bring AF/VR and 18-100f4

-Digital zoom when shooting HD/2k

-focus area check

-decent lanc/handgrip (with focus pop and roll as per EX1 AND pot mode 'pedal' and and ) and not made of allergy platsic like the FS100/700

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Specifically the F5 - will it feed to the 4k live system

What else is missing and what do you want/need?

Owners - what are the bummers?
 
morgan_moore said:
Im on the fence about the F5,and F55. To some extent the imager seems fantastic, but the camera leaves a lot to be desired.

Any thoughts on this stuff? And if it will come in Firmware.

The stuff I would want in a 'pro' camera (and I think is available in some ENG cams?)

-Audio pots (ie one of the six buttons assigned to make the pot audio)

-Pre Roll

- Luts (if shooting Slog XAVCHD I think the monitor needs a LUT or three)

-WFM (WFM displays the core log/Raw even if a LUT is on the monitor)

-qualty of 2k raw skipped? binned or supersampled?

-HF socket move to XLR box or similar

-E-mount to bring AF/VR and 18-100f4

-Digital zoom when shooting HD/2k

-focus area check

-decent lanc/handgrip (with focus pop and roll as per EX1 AND pot mode 'pedal' and and ) and not made of allergy platsic like the FS100/700

----
Specifically the F5 - will it feed to the 4k live system

What else is missing and what do you want/need?

Owners - what are the bummers?[/QUOTE


Half the stuff you're asking here could be answered in simple forum searches. 2K isn't even out yet so how can we comment? "E-mount with AF": have you read the F5/55 lens mount specs? "Decent lanc/handgrip"? It has a multi-pin remote and there is no room for an integrated hand-grip. "...the camera leaves a lot to be desired". Seriously? Whatever F-owners think, this doesn't sound like the camera for you.
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F5/F55 are missing MLUT's and WFM but we are told by Sony they are working on it. I heard by the end of the year.

That still leaves a lot of the other items on your list to be desired, I don't see many of them being implemented although they sound like some good ideas.

The audio controls I don't think we'll ever see. Digital zoom would need a rocker on the camera body or some zoom grip add on and again I cant see sony implementing this as a feature.

I can't comment on 2k native out of the F5 but I feel my 4k downscaled in post looks better somehow then HD or 2k natively out of my F55. The explanation can only be that in camera the Sony circuits have to do it in real time whereas in post the software can do a better job because it doesn't have to convert in real time.

I always thought of F3/F5/F55 as Cinema cameras and nothing more, probably because their format is 35mm. A Lot of the stuff people complained about on the F3 and now F5/F55 never bothered me. If people are expecting a fully featured video camera from a CineAlta camera then likely the price would have been double or triple.

Who knows what the future has in store. The F7/F77 could be around the corner.
 
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powervideo said:
Half the stuff you're asking here could be answered in simple forum searches. 2K isn't even out so yet so how can we comment? "E-mount with AF": have you read the F5/55 lens mount specs? "Decent lanc/handgrip"? It has a multi-pin remote and there is no room for an integrated hand-grip. "...the camera leaves a lot to be desired". Seriously? Whatever F-owners think, this doesn't sound like the camera for you.
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I know the status of most of this stuff, I just wanted to hear peoples thoughts on them.

I would not want an integrated handgrip... very interested in what can be controlled from the multi pin remote - Id be interested in at least start/stop and focus check (like my five year old EX1) is this possible thanks?

I know the FZ mount, I also know that the truth of the AF on my FS100 is that it is better than you or I at pulling focus in very specific situations mainly telephoto walks towards the cam
Also that 18-100 f4 is possibly the best affordable RNG zoom available at the moment

With a 700 I get AF and the 18-100, with the F5 I dont, I would not actually care about AF

..the camera leaves a lot to be desired Seriously?

Are you telling me that your life got better by moving from a camera with (I guess) audio pots to one with audio in the menu?
Are you telling me that your life got better by moving from (if you had one) a camera with pre roll?

As it happens both of these have been mentioned in the deep rumour mill

-a fimware upgrade (FWU) to put the audio on the side wheel
-a FWU to pre roll to an SxS
 
Yes I agree it's all possible, just don't see Sony worrying about it on these puppies.

But I need MLUT'S and WFM for when just using the OLED VF without external monitor.
 
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And that is it.. is Sony worried about these puppies? Do they want to breed them up to be full grown beasts or will that stuff come with the "F6"?

To me the audio is bad news, I can see that Peter Corbett probably works with a soundie.

S
 
The problem I've seen all along is the F trying to be everything to too many market segments, and then failing at that easily leaving different groups with something easy to complain about. Why did people shooting ENG, broadcast, live events, etc.. decide to jump from 1/2" or 2/3" to 35mm and then complain about expensive 35mm zoom lenses, ergonomics, and other missing features?

Hopefully Sony comes out with a 4k 2/3" camera that has more "video" features people are asking for. For a "cinema" camera I never had issues with the F3 and now the F55.
 
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Sorry, didn't mean to sound harsh, but no camera will ever be perfect or all things to all people. Some features can be implemented with firmware upgrades but others like handgrips, auto-focus and OIS will have to wait until a future F-series camera.

With sound, yes I usually have a soundo or shoot mute for TVC's, but I too would also like to see better audio functionality. Lack of pre-roll doesn't worry me. We had it on our FS700 which was part of the whole HFR technology, but for general production, I don't see it as essential. We're not shooting ENG. Our F5 is not perfect but it is streets ahead of our old F3.

It may be that a C500, Scarlet or even Alexa may suit your needs. For me, as an overall package, the F5 is the best bang-for-buck solution available at the moment. Ask me next year and I may have a different view.
 
starcentral said:
The problem I've seen all along is the F trying to be everything to too many market segments, and then failing at that easily leaving different groups with something easy to complain about. Why did people shooting ENG, broadcast, live events, etc.. decide to jump from 1/2" or 2/3" to 35mm and then complain about expensive 35mm zoom lenses, ergonomics, and other missing features?

Hopefully Sony comes out with a 4k 2/3" camera that has more "video" features people are asking for. For a "cinema" camera I never had issues with the F3 and now the F55.
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Panasonic is working on - or has already developed - a 4K 2/3" chip. They might be the first out of the box with a 4K "video" camera. Imagine a 4K Varicam. AVC-Ultra should be able to handle 4K.

Someone told me that the F55/55 can't transfer camera data and settings from one camera to another via an SD card, or some other type of media. is this true?
 
starcentral said:
The problem I've seen all along is the F trying to be everything to too many market segments, and then failing at that easily leaving different groups with something easy to complain about. Why did people shooting ENG, broadcast, live events, etc.. decide to jump from 1/2" or 2/3" to 35mm and then complain about expensive 35mm zoom lenses, ergonomics, and other missing features?

Hopefully Sony comes out with a 4k 2/3" camera that has more "video" features people are asking for. For a "cinema" camera I never had issues with the F3 and now the F55.
Click to expand...

It is certainly true that the 5/55 seemed to start as cinema cameras .. a job very well done.. but with the practical codecs, expansion to raw, built in ND and the like they offer huge amount to the corporate shooter, especially one with 'cinematic' ambitions/side projects

To me with a little firmware twonking and thought to ergonomics I think ta 5/55 could offer me a one camera solution for many years covering most bases.

Some may pipe up that there is no 'one camera solution' - now, I used to shoot stills on MF (interiors and formals) and FF35 (everything else), but now a good FF35 still cam does really do it all, from sport and pap to high art.
 
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powervideo said:
Sorry, didn't mean to sound harsh, but no camera will ever be perfect or all things to all people. Some features can be implemented with firmware upgrades but others like handgrips, auto-focus and OIS will have to wait until a future F-series camera.

With sound, yes I usually have a soundo or shoot mute for TVC's, but I too would also like to see better audio functionality. Lack of pre-roll doesn't worry me. We had it on our FS700 which was part of the whole HFR technology, but for general production, I don't see it as essential. We're not shooting ENG. Our F5 is not perfect but it is streets ahead of our old F3.

It may be that a C500, Scarlet or even Alexa may suit your needs. For me, as an overall package, the F5 is the best bang-for-buck solution available at the moment. Ask me next year and I may have a different view.
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Pre roll certainly is of interest, partly as a way of being economic with high data rate media
Often with my other cameras I have to roll on a point 'waiting' for my moment - such could eat TB fast at broader bandwidths
(I certainly heard this from some nature shooters interested in the cam too)

Sound - well I do a lot of interviews.

C500 (too costly) Scarlet no 'practical codec' are off my radar..

S
 
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to me the biggest thing missing from the f5 is the ability to output 4k or record xavc 4k. When 5000 dollar handycams can do this and the fs700 can the fact that the f5 can't seems quite an oversight. I would buy one now if it had the option of somehow recording a smaller than raw 4k. I just know the next version will have on board 4k ( or output ) if not then Panasonic or another company will bring something out. I think we are on the brink of seeing a lot of 4k cameras and raw isn't really practical for most of us.
 
ryaninoz said:
to me the biggest thing missing from the f5 is the ability to output 4k or record xavc 4k. When 5000 dollar handycams can do this and the fs700 can the fact that the f5 can't seems quite an oversight. I would buy one now if it had the option of somehow recording a smaller than raw 4k. I just know the next version will have on board 4k ( or output ) if not then Panasonic or another company will bring something out. I think we are on the brink of seeing a lot of 4k cameras and raw isn't really practical for most of us.
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Another 7 months from now no one will regret getting an F55, not sure I can say the same for the F5.
 
There was a brief typo in the Sony firmware update notes a while back that said the f5 was getting quad HD. It would have made perfect sense, the f55 still has global shutter and wider colour gamut over the f5 but the f5 having no internal 4k or 4k out is to me a major drawback considering 4k is coming towards us over the next 1-2 years. I have 30 k to spend and no idea what to buy it's very frustrating but I think it's a situation many of us find ourselves in. A 4k SDI out and I would buy an f5 tomorrow. Now I am thinking of just holding on and taking my chances by waiting till after the Sony deal as I am sure we will see a variety of 4k cameras on the market by early next year.
 
Hi Chris, I just meant that both cameras have been out for 7 months already so in another 7 months it will be interesting to see what other progressions were made towards 4k.

I just bought a new Sony 50" LED TV and in the store next to it was a 4k TV for $5000. What a rip off I told myself, plus what 4k content are you seriously going to be able to watch on it? But Sony is pushing 4k like crazy, heck even the new Sony AV Receiver I bought will up convert SD or HDMI to 4k.

I'm no 4k advocate and to each his own, but 4k is coming so there's no way I would spend $20,000 + plus + on a F5 HD camera. No way. Buy an F3 then, way better value. (In my opinion of course)
 
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