F5: F5 roadmap or will there be a new model soon?

starcentral said:
I was one of the bitter posters on the forums when 4K all-file hack came out, as originally in 2012 when I planned to switch over to RED from the F3, Sony had announced "The New F" and then once I found out Sony was going to start offering "RAW" I sold my RED order as quickly as I bought it. I decided to wait it out for the New F's in March 2013. I went back and forth a hundred times between the F5 and F55, and finally decided that even though there was NO WAY the ROI made sense to fork over the extra $12k for the F55, that I would just go for the F55. The fact it had 4K internally meant I could shoot 4K for lower budget narrative projects and push 10-bit 422 SLOG to its limits, and not have to worry about the storage of RAW and what it meant for low budget indie projects. But it meant I would have access to RAW via R5 for the eventual projects that would call for it.

Here we are 20 months later and its quite a different landscape. I think if you are looking at FS7, F5, F55 and you know you only want to shoot RAW then you are in a good boat to get really any of these cameras that will probably deliver almost an identical image. But look at the price spread not including media, batteries: $8k, $21k, $34k

If you want compressed 4K and don't care about RAW, again, all three of these cameras will do it. Same thing as ProRes which is also coming. All three tick those boxes.

The only think the F5/F55 really has over the FS7 is the PL mount and SR codec, but the SR is only HD anyways, and arguably the ProRes 4444 (if that is planned for all three cameras) will be as good if not better than SR codec.

So what's left? The mount and some internal chip processing power? Silver ring and global shutter for the F55. Am I missing something here?
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Dennis you nailed it. You are paying 26k for a mount and some global shutter and an extended gamma that no one really knows how to grade that well except at the top top top level and even those guys I struggle with to grade my low end crap well - all they do is complain that "you didn't shoot on the alexa like everyone and their moms.". Is 26,000 dollars worth it for you?
 
Well the situation was different 20 months ago as I had mentioned, but TODAY would I pay $26k extra?

Probably not. But the F5 hits a perfect in-between prosumer and CineAlta F55 spot in my books. Especially in December when V5 comes out.
 
for $13k more - I guess we disagree on that but I get your angle.
also I just got a Sony F3 for 3k . From Viddonation - maybe that's the best thing that could have happened with all this. The F3 is still a damn fine camera in terms of skin tones. The resolution isn't as sharp, but I would be shocked if anyone could tell the difference on tv, web, or mobile, between the f3 and f5, fs7 and f55 at its basest level. that's the pepsi challenge I'd like to do.
 
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no worries, even $13k is a lot to ponder for little differences... but I think if you go F series you won't regret it once you get over the $$$$ :cool:
 
The FS7 is only getting 1080p ProRes with the extension unit, right? I don't think I saw anything about 4K ProRes.
 
Not sure what's getting what anymore. I read somewhere that F-series will be getting 4444 but not sure its going to be 4K.

I don't think any Sony camera will get 4K ProRes because Sony wants to push its XAVC codec for that. I could be wrong.
 
starcentral said:
Not sure what's getting what anymore. I read somewhere that F-series will be getting 4444 but not sure its going to be 4K.

I don't think any Sony camera will get 4K ProRes because Sony wants to push its XAVC codec for that. I could be wrong.
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Does Sony consider this part of the F series? I feel like it's a strange bastard child of the FS700 and the F5.
 
Something that everyone is neglecting in comparing FS7/F5/F55 is that the F55 has that ultra-wide color gamut. Oh, and global shutter. So there are a few differences with the F55.

FS7 is not in the CineAlta line up. It is considered in the XDCAM family. I honestly doubt that beyond fixes and the ProRes and internal 4K updates, we will not see the aggressive development on this camera as we do on the CineAlta cameras.

Ned
 
F55 is a beast with global shutter and same color filter array as f65. However it is out of my budget range, so i will have to settle with F5 and the raw recorder.

Does the F5 suffer from the black spot at high contrast areas when shooting log?

I noticed that atleast fs7 has this problem as does fs700.

I was unable produce the problem with f55, so it apparently does not suffer from that, however does F5?
 
jshbckr said:
Does Sony consider this part of the F series? I feel like it's a strange bastard child of the FS700 and the F5.
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sorry that was a slip up of my words, they are all F-series cameras. What I probably meant was that F5/F55 CineAlta series are getting 4444 from what I read somewhere, but not sure about the FS series.
 
nsoltz said:
Something that everyone is neglecting in comparing FS7/F5/F55 is that the F55 has that ultra-wide color gamut. Oh, and global shutter. So there are a few differences with the F55.

FS7 is not in the CineAlta line up. It is considered in the XDCAM family. I honestly doubt that beyond fixes and the ProRes and internal 4K updates, we will not see the aggressive development on this camera as we do on the CineAlta cameras.

Ned
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Even though I may be older, you are one of the folks I have looked up to and trusted to inform me.

So, surely the FS7 is called a XDCAM to protect the F5. And yes, it does shoot that mpeg2 50mb/s stuff for news and RnG.

And considering the potentially much higher number of users I would suspect the camera will be developed. As I am sure you know, the 4K for the F5 was rushed and dropped in price due to the hack.

The main thing I would want if shooting features would be the global shutter and then the SR codecs. Otherwise the FS7 is more than good enough.

BTW, Sony tells me the shipping camera will do 4k out of the SDI and HDMI. Anybody try either of those?

Y'all be cool,
Robert
 
Sami2 said:
F55 is a beast with global shutter and same color filter array as f65. However it is out of my budget range, so i will have to settle with F5 and the raw recorder.

Does the F5 suffer from the black spot at high contrast areas when shooting log?

I noticed that atleast fs7 has this problem as does fs700.

I was unable produce the problem with f55, so it apparently does not suffer from that, however does F5?
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No, in 20 months of ownership I've never seen any kind of "black spot" when shooting Log with my F5.

If I was buying today I would probably still lean to the F5(without Sony EVF, how I bought mine) over the FS7. Once the 7 is kitted with the SDI/v-lock extension etc. the price difference starts becoming a non issue. The F5 still has a few tricks up it's sleeve that make it much more appealing to me. Just the center-scan feature and SR alone is worth the price difference to ME. For those that dont need these features the 7 is a no-brainer. Look how well thousands of people got on with the feature crippled C300.
 
Fotojorno said:
No, in 20 months of ownership I've never seen any kind of "black spot" when shooting Log with my F5.

.... For those that don't need these features the 7 is a no-brainer. Look how well thousands of people got on with the feature crippled C300.
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I see no black spot issue on the FS7.

And yeah that C300 made a killing for me. I'm even starting to miss it a little. ;)
 
If Sony were to listen to me, yeah right,... The base systems of the F55 F5 can be brought onto equal planes. I think it is a matter of introducing the next best sensor, and making that an upgrade of equal value for either camera.
I'm not necessarily talking 6k, but a more advanced 4k sensor where it would be worthwhile for the both camera owners to look into. Especially with camera life being a part of the topic. Sony can easily intro the "New" camera, but since it is built on the F55 F5 platform you pay $$$ to get a new one or $$$ to upgrade either F55 or F5.

Then they can correct for the big error, that these two cameras should have been ONE with upgrades that separated them rather than two camera that upgrade caused ISSUES with owners while helping with solutions.

The design of the F55 F5 is hard core. It is built to last. And it makes no sense to throw away good design work just to "invent" another box to hold a sensor and a bunch of processing cards..... IMHO

Gilly
 
NeedCreative said:
It does 4K out of HDMI now, and HD out of SDI. 4K RAW out of SDI only with expansion box.
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You actually try the 4k from the SDI or are you just repeating what others have said?

From Juan Martinez:


Robert,

The FS7 can output 10-bit 422: 4096x2160, 3840x2160 and HD via HDMI from the first lot. Initially internal recording it will limited to 3840x2160, but 4096x2160 will be added in the near future via firmware update. Of course 2K and 4K 12-bit RAW is also via single SDI. Sony is collaborating with Convergent Design to ensure seamless interoperability.

Juan Martinez
Senior Product Manager.
Sony Electronics


Which is somewhat different than what they said originally.

Thanks,
Robert
 
In response to Robert, I most likely am older than you ;)

Anyway, it is difficult to crawl inside the mind of Sony to determine why the FS-7 is positioned as XDCAM. And I do know the initial plan was not to develop in the same manner as the CineAlta cameras. But Sony also has been known to change course. I agree that the camera will be enormously popular and I anxiously await mine to arrive. It is still a very different animal from the F5 despite the fact that it will produce virtually the same image. Good response from Juan.

Ned
 
infohou said:
You actually try the 4k from the SDI or are you just repeating what others have said?

From Juan Martinez:


Robert,

The FS7 can output 10-bit 422: 4096x2160, 3840x2160 and HD via HDMI from the first lot. Initially internal recording it will limited to 3840x2160, but 4096x2160 will be added in the near future via firmware update. Of course 2K and 4K 12-bit RAW is also via single SDI. Sony is collaborating with Convergent Design to ensure seamless interoperability.

Juan Martinez
Senior Product Manager.
Sony Electronics


Which is somewhat different than what they said originally.

Thanks,
Robert
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I have the camera and the SDI is only 1080p.

It looks like you'll need the Extension Unit to add RAW out, which is 4K up to 60p.
 
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