F5: F5/55 Audio question

scocklin said:
We have a Sound devices 552 with AES out on both left and right outputs and we do record four separate channels of audio on our F5. But as Doug said channels 3 and 4 on the camera can not be controlled with the current firmware on the F5 and I assume the F55.
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Well the caveat was that most mixers don't have dual AES outputs until you get into more "Cadillac" models of $3000 and up. But I suppose I should have worded what I said differently.


Here's a quick handy dandy reference chart of various mixers and what they provide in terms of digital outputs (if at all). To record 4 channels you need dual AES outputs:

SD 302 - No AES option
SD 442 - No AES option
SD MixPre-D - Single AES output
SD 552 - Dual AES option
SD 663 - Dual AES option
SD 664 - Dual AES option
Fostex FM-4 - No AES option
Kamesan KS-342 - Single AES output
Tascam DR-680 - Single AES output
 
scocklin said:
You can be 100% sure now, from the Lectrosonics website;

Description: Mounting adapter to mount SR receivers into slot on Sony cameras. Makes connections with internal Sony connector. Second channel is not be enabled by camera manufacturer. However, second channel is correctly presented on Lectrosonics adapter.
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Lectronsonics makes a version of the receiver specifically to address their unit only picking up some of the audio from the bottom of the Sony slot.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/894309-REG/Lectrosonics_srb5p_22_SRb5P_Camera_Slot_UHF.html

You can also purchase a kit to convert your standard Lectro SRb unit into the one mentioned above.

In the case of the F55, thiis is moot as there is no slot.
 
I'm also confused. I also have the Lectro SR slot receiver, which has only analog outputs. I'd also like to have a mono camera mic on and also use both wireless channels on the 55 without going through a mixer. I don't see any way to interface with the Sony wireless system. The SR receiver has been around for quite a while, although two years ago it got a significant upgrade ($250) that brought the audio end on par with their 411 line, and also nearly doubled the range. I had one in my HPX 3000, which allowed a use of a stereo mic on the camera into 3&4, autogain only, with the SR in the slot for channels 1 & 2. Lectro strongly advises against using autogain with their receivers. Any way to get close to this on the 55? Any place to put the SR receiver other than velcro? As an fyi, Sony tried to steer people towards their wireless slot receivers and didn't allow Lectro's SR to pass two channels by choice, not because it wasn't possible. Panasonic, to their credit, enabled both channels soon after the SR came out, now almost a decade ago.
 
Barons said:
Any place to put the SR receiver other than velcro? As an fyi, Sony tried to steer people towards their wireless slot receivers and didn't allow Lectro's SR to pass two channels by choice, not because it wasn't possible.
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If you have an Anton Bauer plate with a metal lip to attach a BEC plate, you can get a BEC box that attaches to the plate and will house the Lectro SRb. B&H sells the gear.

In many cases, I am a big fan of velcro but sometimes you just run out of room to stick stuff or you want to treat some gear with a degree of respect.
 
Well, my sanken camera mic (which I love) is the five pin variety, and along with the lectro SR's two analog outputs, would present a problem for upgrading to a new F "on the cheap." (without buying a bunch of new stuff) I saw Solid gear has a five pin interface you can attach to the camera, but that would just help tidy up and protect the cables a bit without actually solving anything electrically.

I would normally hesitate to run a pair of wireless channels into auto gain channels, but if Doug says it works well, I would tend to believe him. I guess you set your outputs carefully and hope for the best.
Looks like the best course is changing to a mono cam mic and trading the lectro slot receiver for a Sony. Easy...just add money.

Frankly, everything about the audio design on the F's seem like an afterthought, from the headphone jack in the ear to the cheesy audio interface box screwed on the side. Just not enough available real estate, I guess.
 
JCummings said:
Frankly, everything about the audio design on the F's seem like an afterthought, from the headphone jack in the ear to the cheesy audio interface box screwed on the side. Just not enough available real estate, I guess.
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As well as, the lack of proper physical record volume controls and the lack of a proper spot to mount a mic. The F5/55 was simply not designed for camera operators who need to control their own audio. The evidence is overwhelming.
 
Andrew Stone said:
As well as, the lack of proper physical record volume controls and the lack of a proper spot to mount a mic. The F5/55 was simply not designed for camera operators who need to control their own audio. The evidence is overwhelming.
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Back when they were doing hardware design, it seems to me that the camera was designed to be nothing more than an Alexa/Epic competitor. Back then.

I don't think it was until much late that former 2/3" shooters started wanting in on S35 gear and work, and the camera afterwards needed to be all things to everybody.
 
Nate Weaver said:
I don't think it was until much late that former 2/3" shooters started wanting in on S35 gear and work, and the camera afterwards needed to be all things to everybody.
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Hell Nate, I was shooting newsfilm before there were practical 2/3" cameras. I know a lot about camera design simply because I've shot almost every pro camera Sony, Ikegami, RCA, Thomson, Sharp and Panasonic has ever produced. But even the village idiot would know you don't hang important things like VF and audio connectors out into space to hook c-stands, people and scenery. You don't put outputs where an operators ear might be. And you really shouldn't bury audio level controls in a menu...especially on a camera specifically designed for a solo operator. It's just plain silly and especially out of character for a company like Sony that ought to know better. So some of us ***** about it, mostly in the vain hope that it might be improved in the next product cycle.

IMHO, Arri happened to get everything exactly right with the Amira, only to fumble at the goal line on 4K and $40K. So a lot of us are taking a hard look at the baby F's now, which are suddenly looking like a much smarter option.

And a lot of us "2/3 shooters" didn't really "want in" on S35 gear and work, we just weren't ready to concede our careers to pimply kids with DSLR's. You make it sound like we're peeing in the S35 pool. And we probably are.
 
Don't be sexist, John. I'm sure there were also some pimply young ladies with DSLRs hoping to put you in a retirement home. Other than that...spot on, brother!
 
The new Panasonic 4K Varicam will likely have an audio setup similar to the 3000 and 2nd version Varicam, which is to say good. The F55 and even Amira do not seem very audio friendly. Doug - re your BEC side mount - is this possible using the Anton Bauer backplate for the F55 or just with the Sony batteries?
I've just had to order three pieces for the F55 top plate simply to get a shotgun mount that doesn't interfere too badly with the camera - and the absence of 2 simple knobs to adjust gain is hard to believe from the company that has made more camcorders than anyone else on the planet. I realize the F series aren't camcorders, but you have to wonder whether the design guys who asked cameramen what they wanted neglected to bring up audio - such a simple thing (one would think).
 
Barons said:
Doug - re your BEC side mount - is this possible using the Anton Bauer backplate for the F55 or just with the Sony batteries?
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Hard to say because I use V-lock batteries (but not Sony) and not A/B. The BEC box doesn't attach to the batteries at all, it attaches directly to the camera or the R5 recorder. If you look closely at the R5 or the removable power adapter on the back of the camera you will see four tiny empty screw holes. That's where the BEC box attaches. But adding an A/B adpater plate would cover those holes, but maybe the A/B would have some of their own. If you need an A/B solution, I'm sure BEC sells something to make it work.
 
Barons said:
. . . but you have to wonder whether the design guys who asked cameramen what they wanted neglected to bring up audio - such a simple thing (one would think).
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Sony brought me over to the EX1 factory outside of Tokyo in 2008 to give them feedback a few months after the camera was released. A lot of my suggestions ended up on the EX3 and EX1R, and in the later firmware updates. No one has invited me to tell them what is wrong with the F55, and I have a long list.
 
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