F5: F5/55 Audio question

J

JCummings

Well-known member
I think the Sony F's do 4 channel audio. In a doc situation, is there a way to route a camera mount stereo mic to channel 3-4, leaving channels 1-2 open for wireless links or mixer/mics?

Thanks.
 
The only way to do 4 channels simultaneously is by using the AES/EBU audio format setting on the camera. But then all four channels have to be in AES format.

This is not so bad if you use an external recorder that can output S/PDIF (DR-680) or AES (like SD 302, 442, etc..) to go straight in. But doesn't leave you with any straight analog input capability.

So alternatively you can leave one XLR input set to AES/EBU giving you 2 digital channels from your mixer and leave the second XLR input set to MIC or LINE where you can take a single analog source like on-board camera mic, lav output, etc..

Screen Shot 2014-02-08 at 8.29.41 AM.jpg

If using a device with S/PDIF output (like the Tascam DR-680) you can get a S/PDIF converter to AES for around $50.

This in theory means you can actually use some relatively cheap USB powered digital interface devices to convert analog to S/PDIF or AES/EBU and go straight into the F5/F55.

For example the Tascam US-366 has two analog inputs and can output in either IEC60958-3(S/P DIF) or IEC60958-4(AES/EBU). It also offers a pretty decent S/N ratio of 102db..
 
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You are a endless fount of knowledge, DH.

So I can get a stereo return from say an SD 442 via ONE XLR into ch2 and leave ch 1 open for a camera mic?

Can I zero out and manually control ch2 in that scenario or is it "auto" level situation?

Thanks-
 
No, that's not correct.

If you input the camera mic (analog) into XLR-1 and record it on CH-1, then CH-2 will have no sound. Look at line 3 of the chart to see what I mean.

Line 3 is the configuration I use. Camera mic goes into XLR-1 and is recorded on CH-1. CH-2 is wasted. My dual channel wireless microphone receiver (or mixer) connects to XLR-2 and one transmitter is recorded on CH-3 and the other transmitter is recorded on CH-4.

However, there is no way to control the recording levels of CH-3 and CH-4 with the current firmware so they just have to run on auto. Never had a problem, though, and I'd probably leave them set for auto even if I had the option of manually setting the levels. I ran my AES/EBU inputs on my F800 on automatic for years and never had any trouble. No trouble so far with the F55 either.
 
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John is correct. I think when he refers to ch1 and ch2 he is referring to the physical input channel in on the audio interface box ie. ch-1 and ch-2 but after multiplexing ch-1 input actually ends up recording ch-1 & ch-2 and ch-2 input records ch-3 & ch-4.

It is just a technicality in the wording but I think he got it. It is line 3 of the diagram.

I wasn't sure however about being able to control ch3 & ch4 so that is good to know Doug.
 
Dennis, you are probably right. It would be helpful if people would use the right terminology. The two XLR inputs should never be referred to as "channels".
 
Sorry for the confusion guys.
So I could plug a mono camera mic--analog +48v-- into xlr 1 on the interface box. Say I also have a lectro two channel receiver like Doug....could I get both channels from that into xlr 2 and record those on channels 3-4?
That's the question I guess...how do you take two channels of analog into into a single 3pin xlr and record two channels digitally? Do I need an interface box of some kind?
 
Here's what I'm trying to do:
On my HDX900, i could route my stereo camera mic to channel 3-4 and forget about it....leaving me ch 1-2 for mixer output or wireless. No repatching.

Is there a way to do that without going thru a mixer?
 
I can't speak for lectro because my wireless is Sony, but yes I do exactly what you are wanting to do.
 
Your wireless is two channels and you get it into ch 3-4 on your F55 via a single 3 pin xlr on the 55? Does your wireless output something other than analog?

Sorry I seem so dense.
 
Yes to both questions. My Sony wireless receiver has two channels (receives two transmitters) and will output both of those channels via ONE cable when it is in the digital AES/EBU mode. Works great on the F55! I connect that cable to the XLR-2 input on the camera and I record one microphone on CH-3 and one microphone on CH-4.

Here is my receiver: http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/cat-wirelessmics/product-DWRS02D/14/

And you need one of these: http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/cat-wirelessmics/product-DWA01D/

I have a v-mount quick release on the camera so I can put easily put it on and off when needed. Power comes from the camera so no external supply is necessary.
 
That receiver Doug uses is pretty darn cool!

You could also have two separate receivers with analog outputs go into a Sound Devices 422, then digital output from the 422 into XLR-2 on the F55.

This leaves the XLR-1 input on the F55 free to do whatever you like with. So either a single mono mic, mono line level signal, or again another AES digital connection which will support 2 channels into 1.

clear as mud right?
 
Yeah, but with the wireless receiver onboard the camera, I have eliminated the need for an audio guy on more than half my shoots -- and that saves thousands! That wireless system has paid for itself 10x since I got it for my F800 three years ago.
 
So is it true that if you had a 4-channel mixer with AES/EBU output, you could record all 4 channels (separately) to the F5/55? It's unclear to me how you would control how the channels would get allocated appropriately. (Analog channel 1 to the F5/55's digital channel 1, etc.). In particular, if you had a Tascam DR-680 (and adaptor to AES/EBU), could you mix 6 input channels down to the 4 channels the F5/55 can record? (The Tascam DR-680 has some problems, and I wouldn't want to be riding gain on 6 channels, but boy would that give you a lot of capability).
 
No you could not record 4 channels from a mixer to 4 separate channels on the F5/F55 because most mixers only have a single AES output, and a single AES output only carries two channels.

So with the DR-680, since it only has one AES output you could record the mix down to two channels and into the camera, but they are mixed so you won't be able to separate them after (obviously).

BUT - you could use TWO mixers with AES outputs and record 4 channels separately. But for example using two 422's would probably be cost prohibitive. My idea of using the lower cost Tascam audio interfaces might work but I haven't tested it, they need +5 volts over USB to be powered.
 
So AES straight out of the Sony wireless. Perfectly clear now.
Pretty sure my lectros don't do that. I'll have to look.

Thanks guys.
 
starcentral said:
No you could not record 4 channels from a mixer to 4 separate channels on the F5/F55 because most mixers only have a single AES output, and a single AES output only carries two channels.
Click to expand...

We have a Sound devices 552 with AES out on both left and right outputs and we do record four separate channels of audio on our F5. But as Doug said channels 3 and 4 on the camera can not be controlled with the current firmware on the F5 and I assume the F55.
 
I think you'd get your receiver to fit in the adapter because the adapter is basically the same dimensions as the built-in slot found on the F800/700 and other Sony cameras that have the slot. But I'm 99% sure you're only going to get one channel of output because only the Sony receivers can feed two channels. Or I should say, Sony only allows Sony receivers to feed two channels.
 
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Doug Jensen said:
I think you'd get your receiver to fit in the adapter because the adapter is basically the same dimensions as the built-in slot found on the F800/700 and other Sony cameras that have the slot. But I'm 99% sure you're only going to get one channel of output because only the Sony receivers can feed two channels. Or I should say, Sony only allows Sony receivers to feed two channels.
Click to expand...

You can be 100% sure now, from the Lectrosonics website;

Description: Mounting adapter to mount SR receivers into slot on Sony cameras. Makes connections with internal Sony connector. Second channel is not be enabled by camera manufacturer. However, second channel is correctly presented on Lectrosonics adapter.
 
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