F35 vs BM 4K vs GH4: resolution is not everything

"Problem is the Nikon conversion is not reversible. You have to destroy the front plate. Then to go back to PL you have to buy a new front plate for the camera from Sony. It's basically a Frankenstein conversion if you look at it."

Once again SJX you spread misinformation in the F35 forums. Im sure a few people will read you comment and believe your "fact".

Nikon conversion done right can swap between PL and Nikon just as fast as switching plates. I unscrew the nikon mount drop it out, and drop the PL on, just did it last week on a shoot. I can do the switch in 10 mins. Buying a 2nd plate adds nothing because you can't pull the plate off from the front, its just as much work. If you wanted a quick switching nikon, pl system, it would require 2 full ccd blocks. Then its 4 screws bam bam. Thats the system i will have soon.

If you get Barretts Mod to nikon you do not need 2 plates, it's pointless. Nikon conversion costs around $1000 and adds without taking away from the camera.

I agree there are huge disadvantages to nikon but switching back to PL is not one.
 
The decision to go with PL vs Stills glass is mostly a matter of preference and workflow; comparing their objective value in some sort of qualitative comparison won't result in anything useful. You can find great reasons to use either, but neither should be regarded as somehow deficient or lacking. Plenty of RED users out there who've probably poured many times the cost of a current F35 kit, into their own EPIC setup, that don't use any PL glass at all. I don't think they lack the resources to invest in PL glass, yet stills glass more than suffices for their projects.
 
yachacha said:
"Problem is the Nikon conversion is not reversible. You have to destroy the front plate. Then to go back to PL you have to buy a new front plate for the camera from Sony. It's basically a Frankenstein conversion if you look at it."

Once again SJX you spread misinformation in the F35 forums. Im sure a few people will read you comment and believe your "fact".
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Just let him have his fun ;)
 
yachacha said:
"Problem is the Nikon conversion is not reversible. You have to destroy the front plate. Then to go back to PL you have to buy a new front plate for the camera from Sony. It's basically a Frankenstein conversion if you look at it."

Once again SJX you spread misinformation in the F35 forums.
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Excuse me, once again?
yachacha said:
Nikon conversion done right can swap between PL and Nikon just as fast as switching plates. I unscrew the nikon mount drop it out, and drop the PL on, just did it last week on a shoot. I can do the switch in 10 mins. Buying a 2nd plate adds nothing because you can't pull the plate off from the front, its just as much work. If you wanted a quick switching nikon, pl system, it would require 2 full ccd blocks. Then its 4 screws bam bam. Thats the system i will have soon.
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Have you posted a picture and info about this mount of yours? Or are you keeping it a secret? The info posted here is that the PL is built in on the front plate. This is also what I saw at the rental house, although I didn't take it apart and concluded based on the info I had read.

Nikon has a much shorter flange than PL, so how are you screwing and unscrewing it?

Again, if you have not posted pics and info about your miracle mount you can't blame people for not knowing of your secret.
 
L1N3ARX said:
The decision to go with PL vs Stills glass is mostly a matter of preference and workflow;
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I'm sorry. Now you can throw jokes as much as you like. But the reason to go with still glass full time is cost. Because if not why else go with inferior optics, inferior ergonomics, inferior construction, inferior mount? Because it's fun? To be the rebel?

I think people just try to dress it up nicer instead of just saying they can't afford.

As for all the epic owners that you mention who shoot with still glass, I don't know any and if they do, again I can only ask why. Makes no sense investing on an upscale camera and limiting your glass. I can understand needing a small light weight lens at times. But that's different than shooting full time with still glass.

By the way, the conversation is about good PL glass. Master, Ultra, Leica, Cooke etc. Anybody who says this is not superior in every way to some nikon lens I don't know what to say to him.
 
Yes a few of use have posted pics a ways back in the original thread. Contact Barrett Phillips he is doing the conversion, no secret, just smart engineering.

My arm is in sling otherwise Id respond more with photos.

I own 1 F35 plate, it has nikon mount. I remove plate from block and pull off nikon, switch back to PL, put plate back on camera. Keith also has this system i believe but he has an extra plate to keep one of each ready. Nikon can still be removed and PL attached. I think Jo Kami might have a barrett conversion also.

Canon destroys the mount, but I don't own one so that's not my area. I like to talk about what i know.
 
yachacha said:
Yes a few of use have posted pics a ways back in the original thread. Contact Barrett Phillips he is doing the conversion, no secret, just smart engineering.

My arm is in sling otherwise Id respond more with photos.

I own 1 F35 plate, it has nikon mount. I remove plate from block and pull off nikon, switch back to PL, put plate back on camera. Keith also has this system i believe but he has an extra plate to keep one of each ready. Nikon can still be removed and PL attached. I think Jo Kami might have a barrett conversion also.

Canon destroys the mount, but I don't own one so that's not my area. I like to talk about what i know.
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Oh so you do have to remove the front plate. When you said you screw it on and off it read like you didn't have to take the plate off. But like I said, to go back to PL, as in the original unbutchered state, you need a new plate. The PL is machined into the plate right? You have to basically destroy it and put something else in place. Or how did you manage to do it if not by butchering the original mount?
 
SJX - I have a spare plate that I just looked at. If you review carefully, you'll see the PL mount has screws in it, and there's a ring about 8mm deep (stainless steel?) that will come out. To do so you need to remove the stopper for the lock ring (hex key), then unscrew the lock ring (regular screw threads there).

The flange depth for Nikon is 46.5mm
The flange depth for PL is 52mm.
That's a difference of 5.5mm.

If you could engineer a Nikon lock ring with a depth of no more than 2.5mm, then it would seem possible.

I'm not quite sure if you'd even need to remove the front plate from the camera to do so... then again, I'm not the one who's actually done this.

Although, if it's that *easy*, makes me wonder why we don't all do a group buy, bring the price down.
 
I have one plate. Nikon plate PL plate, both the same one. The nikon mount screws into the back of the plate hence removing it to swap. Barrett milled out very little of the F35 to make nikon fit, it almost does already. This milling to the plate does not loose the ability to put the PL mount back on. The back focus needs to be readjusted, so a 2nd plate might aid in that step, but that's easy to tweak on the f35.
 
So, it's not getting infinity focus for both lens systems? Or are you shimming it? I don't like the idea of messing with my backfocus...
 
I think technically it should hold the same for both mounts, No shims. I like my nikon mount to focus a bit past infinity on wide lenses, that way I can be sure where it is in. I don't need to move it back for PL but I turn it back to a mark I had the PL calibrated to. Wide angles are tricky on focus, especially with the still lens tiny throw. The real advantage of cinema lenses becomes very clear on wides, easy to operate and better sharpness corner to corner.

any info on GL optics? I just got the nikon sigma 18-35, had to take the iris control out to make it fit. I am holding the iris open with a small piece of paper right now while i play. Either need to mod iris lever or get duclos to add iris ring of some sort.
 
This thread is sort of steering away from the original post.

One thing that seems weird in the images in post 2 is how far off in terms of color the third image is whether it's the GH4 or the BM 4K. If you look at Mac's DR comparison between the gh4 and the f35 in this thread" http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?322885-Lots-of-tests-with-the-new-GH4 -- it seems that the colors between the gh4 and the f35 are not THAT crazy different. Granted this might have been a different white balance setting, but still....
 
Dang...want to download the files. Dropbox full huh? Anybody who downloaded want to reupload and PM me? Would like to see...
 
Most Nikon mods here are not 100% destructive the a return to PL. The modification is significant and irreversible in the sense that material milled away can never be replaced, but it's not limiting in practice. I can put the PL mount back onto the same plate if I want. It's some work, but it's do-able. The PL mount is not machined directly into the front plate. It is fastened to it via screws, etc. Barrett's mod does mill away some of the front plate's cast metal to fit the Nikon mount, but it still leaves the original mounting holes for the PL mount intact.

The process for switching from the Nikon mount back to the PL mount on the same plate would be:

1) remove plate & optical block assembly from camera
2) remove optical block from plate
3) remove Nikon mount from plate
4) fasten PL mount to plate
5) re-attach optical block to plate
6) re-attach plate & optical block assembly to camera

I've done it a few times. I can do it in about 30-40 minutes or so. I do have an extra plate that has a PL mount on it, so for me to switch to that one I still end up doing steps 1, 2, 5 & 6. If I had a spare good optical block I could leave that attached to my PL plate and make the switch with just steps 1 & 6, which is what yachacha wants to be able to do. Barrett is currently working on a mod improvement that will allow the user to swap the Nikon and PL mounts without needing to remove the plate & block assembly from the camera at all. However he's not done with that improvement yet, but once he is I'll be sending one of my plates in to get that done. When that happens it will indeed be a 5 minute project to swap mounts with no need to remove the plate/block assembly from the camera.

I love my PL glass, but my Rokinon cine Nikon lenses are faster. I've had my F35 in Nikon mode lately because my latest short was shot all at night. But my next project will be daytime, so I'll swap it back to PL and use my Angie & Red zooms. PL glass is great. I prefer my ancient Angie 20-120 f2.6 zoom to all my lenses.

Yes, I chose the Nikon mod due to the prevailing price of fast PL glass. But then again, I did buy the F35 at less than 7% of its original price. I'm already engaged in a value maximization project here. Elsewise I'd just buy an Alexa and be done with it. But budgets are real, so I'll adapt accordingly. If you have the budget for fast PL glass, awesome! I'm happy for you. I have some nice PL glass, too. And I have some nice Nikon glass, as well. I can use whichever one fits for the project at a price point that doesn't land me in divorce court. Yay for me!

I'm not sure what value there is in dividing people over this.

Also, the color on that GH4 frame grab looks..... well, it's.... let's just say it's interesting and leave it at that.
 
I'm very keen to keep hearing the developments on this process. The current method, as I understand it, seems unwieldy to me. That is to say, it sounds great as a permanent mod with a reversible option - but it doesn't sound practical for flipping back and forth - I'd be scared of stripping the screws over time on parts that expensive and likely increasingly difficult to replace. Also, it sounds like the milling down process would have an effect on backfocus. This would seem solveable with custom shims, or even a custom machined replacement pl ring. But these are still hassles.

I say that from my perspective and concerns. I certainly respect that everyone on this board is entitled to make the decisions that best fit their craft and business.
 
keithlango said:
(...)
Also, the color on that GH4 frame grab looks..... well, it's.... let's just say it's interesting and leave it at that.
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I thought there's always room for grading somehow later (aka post)

but, sometimes I wonder if it should only be me and I am just a bit outdated on business ; )

E :-)
 
Of course there's room for grading, but it's just really really weird to see shot 3 (if it is gh4) be so off: it looks like the white balance was not properly set or something.
 
qwerty123 said:
Of course there's room for grading, but it's just really really weird to see shot 3 (if it is gh4) be so off: it looks like the white balance was not properly set or something.
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Ah, got the point now : ) I haven't seen them once I am accessing from limited mobile internet. I meant nowadays practically any tool is able to produce acceptable outcome towards further post-production work in the end of the track.
 
So which was which? Can you please confirm that it was F35, BM 4k, GH4, in that order, or that we are all wrong. Please let us know or there really isn't any point in the original post.
 
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