F35 vs BM 4K vs GH4: resolution is not everything
- Thread starter macgregor
- Start date
2nd is of course most filmic (except for the ugly clipped hihglight.)
3rd is out of focus so i cant tell which is the m43 sensor. but im guessing f35 is 3, 1st is GH4 for high resolved (is the gh4 on 4k? if it isnt its the 3rd one)
your 2nd photo outdoor
1st is BMC4k
is 2nd the GH4 with less DOF?
3rd is F35 soft resolution?
3rd is out of focus so i cant tell which is the m43 sensor. but im guessing f35 is 3, 1st is GH4 for high resolved (is the gh4 on 4k? if it isnt its the 3rd one)
your 2nd photo outdoor
1st is BMC4k
is 2nd the GH4 with less DOF?
3rd is F35 soft resolution?
maranfilms
Veteran
I like the top photo by far out of these, no clipping, excellent hair detail, seems to hold the most latitude on my monitor. I guess it's all subjective cause to me the first looks the best.
keithlango
Well-known member
Link to the 3cams.rar only yields a corrupted file. 
The interior pics seem to have been taken down. I recall liking #2 of that scene. The exterior pics- I'm liking what I see in #1. Feels like slog.
The interior pics seem to have been taken down. I recall liking #2 of that scene. The exterior pics- I'm liking what I see in #1. Feels like slog.
macgregor
Veteran
Link to the 3cams.rar only yields a corrupted file.
The interior pics seem to have been taken down. I recall liking #2 of that scene. The exterior pics- I'm liking what I see in #1. Feels like slog.
Hi guys, it's all loading, give it a few more mins.
I wish I could make these larger.
Full size versions available at http://www.sandboxproduction.com/MacGregorsExtGraded.zip
Anyway, to evaluate the images I chose to set each grey card to 120 in Photoshop, using straight lines for the color correction in curves. Granted, you can get prettier grades by using curves for the color controls, but I wanted to see what each sensor would do to skin-tone - once grey had been made neutral.
I did adjust Contrast - trying to get the hair black (with detail) and nice highlights, and backed off the Saturation - the same on each - to keep things as similar as possible.
I know the grey cards may not look the same - but I used Eye-Drop Markers in the center of each with a 5-by-5 sample, set to 120,120,120.
Regardless of resolution, the bottom two suffer. They can be improved by manipulating the color curves, but they don't achieve the richness of the top picture - ever.
Top camera wins, regardless of resolution. It's simply more accurate. Skin rendering is amazing.
And look how well thread-detail is preserved in the t-shirt.
Full size versions available at http://www.sandboxproduction.com/MacGregorsExtGraded.zip
Anyway, to evaluate the images I chose to set each grey card to 120 in Photoshop, using straight lines for the color correction in curves. Granted, you can get prettier grades by using curves for the color controls, but I wanted to see what each sensor would do to skin-tone - once grey had been made neutral.
I did adjust Contrast - trying to get the hair black (with detail) and nice highlights, and backed off the Saturation - the same on each - to keep things as similar as possible.
I know the grey cards may not look the same - but I used Eye-Drop Markers in the center of each with a 5-by-5 sample, set to 120,120,120.
Regardless of resolution, the bottom two suffer. They can be improved by manipulating the color curves, but they don't achieve the richness of the top picture - ever.
Top camera wins, regardless of resolution. It's simply more accurate. Skin rendering is amazing.
And look how well thread-detail is preserved in the t-shirt.
Last edited:
starcentral
Veteran
f35, bmc, gh
vincent thomas
Well-known member
Yes, in this order, easy to my eyes, will be surprised to be wrong actually...
F35 picture is really neat, is it a better choice today to pick a used Red one Mx over a F35?
Scarlet has the advantage on being able to dragon but the price for a shooting package is almost double isn'it? More compact Camera to shot?
F35 picture is really neat, is it a better choice today to pick a used Red one Mx over a F35?
Scarlet has the advantage on being able to dragon but the price for a shooting package is almost double isn'it? More compact Camera to shot?
JMtheDP
Veteran
Vincent,
I kinda suggest you start a new topic about that rather than derailing this, but I'd sum up my opinion like this:
I chose the F35 over the RED because to my eyes, I prefer the picture. Plus, from a post perspective, the F35 is 10x easier to deal with. Add to this the fact that all RED ONE accessories are going to be useful only for the RED ONE, that becomes a bit of an issue. The F35 just needs a lens, battery, viewfinder (doesn't even need to be a Sony one) and recorder, plus normal arri 35mm accessories.
The RED is a weird shape, even weirder with the hard drive cage on it. The power consumption is basically the same as the F35, I would say a scarlet is perhaps a more future proof option because it shares accessories with the EPIC/DRAGON. A potential benefit is also the changeable mounts although people here do use Nikon mounts on their F35 (needs some work doing) but I personally steer clear of any non-PL lenses for drama work.
I kinda suggest you start a new topic about that rather than derailing this, but I'd sum up my opinion like this:
I chose the F35 over the RED because to my eyes, I prefer the picture. Plus, from a post perspective, the F35 is 10x easier to deal with. Add to this the fact that all RED ONE accessories are going to be useful only for the RED ONE, that becomes a bit of an issue. The F35 just needs a lens, battery, viewfinder (doesn't even need to be a Sony one) and recorder, plus normal arri 35mm accessories.
The RED is a weird shape, even weirder with the hard drive cage on it. The power consumption is basically the same as the F35, I would say a scarlet is perhaps a more future proof option because it shares accessories with the EPIC/DRAGON. A potential benefit is also the changeable mounts although people here do use Nikon mounts on their F35 (needs some work doing) but I personally steer clear of any non-PL lenses for drama work.
maranfilms
Veteran
I have to say I was so excited for the gh4, to the point I thought it would be the last camera I buy for a while, after seeing lots of videos in different types of situations I cancelled my order before it shipped, The more I see from it, the less I like it's image. Yeah it's super sharp, but to me that's about it. After watching Nick Driftwoods (Who i respect, and am a fan of his work) latest film is what did it, I think the f 35 image in it's 1080 glory destroys the gh4, and if by chance that first pic is gh4, then I will look at it again..
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
The comparative is really welcome. Any camera shootout, if well done, is useful in this business, actually. Some comments (not necessarily along this thread per se), instead... oh well, is any one of these cameras not "enough"? I can understand 1080p is not sharp enough for certain work on big screen. But at this 4K outcome?! Come on Ladies, where's the beef now? Not required for your masterpiece work? By the way, where's it possible to watch such demanding work? Or is it just mere nitpicking over here? *sigh*
My rant is not only addressed to the resolution seekers but to all junkies, DR related included, hence posted here
E
My rant is not only addressed to the resolution seekers but to all junkies, DR related included, hence posted here
E
JMtheDP
Veteran
Personally the only thing I would say 1080P is not necessarily fit for is IMAX projection. Any regular cinema it was decided it was more than sufficient.
As a point of interest, Kodak themselves said a release print on 35mm probably contained about 1.4K of information, with the reality probably being closer to 1.2...
As a point of interest, Kodak themselves said a release print on 35mm probably contained about 1.4K of information, with the reality probably being closer to 1.2...
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
Indeed. It is. Even though, for extensive use of wide shots 4K can make a difference. Without mention, the future proof blah blah.
I guess 35mm negative is about the +3K mark, though. And Nyquist theorem will play a determinant role here. We can't compare 720p to 35mm acquisition, not even closer, as same as oldie VHS footage to VHS tape shot in film.
I guess 35mm negative is about the +3K mark, though. And Nyquist theorem will play a determinant role here. We can't compare 720p to 35mm acquisition, not even closer, as same as oldie VHS footage to VHS tape shot in film.
I am also a fan of Nick's work, but I think working with an extremely limited 2 day schedule did not do the GH4 any justice. There were a few very nice shots in his short, but overall the exposure, color, and lighting were all over the place, which degraded the look of the images he was capturing.
From what I've seen so far, the GH4 looks like an amazing little beastie for less than $2K, and given like right treatment ( like Shane Carruth's "Upstream Color" film did for the very limited GH2 camera ) you should be able to produce great looking results.
The F35 has a huge advantage of being able to shoot RAW video which provides a lot more room to fix things in post, where you have to get things right when you shoot with a camera like the GH4. Coming from shooting with GH2/GH3 cameras, I see the GH4 as a big step up for a little $1700 m43 camera.
JMtheDP
Veteran
Dingo
I am not sure if this was a typo on your part, but I feel I should mention the F35 DOES NOT, can not and will never shoot RAW video. It does LOG, similar results but entirely different thing.
This bit is personal opinion, but I personally also feel you need to get the exposure just as right with the F35 as you do with any other camera - it just has greater capabilities at either end so there's technically less need for lighting. (although artistically still needed)
TBH if you're comparing the GH4 with the F35, that's a victory for the GH4.
Sorry, not a typo, just my own ignorance showing...
From reading all the posts about people using the Odyssey7Q with the F35, I had wrongly assumed that they were recording RAW from the F35. Thanks for setting me straight on this. ( while I have little working experience with RAW and Sony LOG footage, I understand the basic differences between these formats )
I hold the same opinion. ( LOG recording gives you more options to fix image problems in post, something I wish Panasonic had added to the GH4 )
...I've been quite surprised at how good the GH4 image can be when shot under the right conditions ( the right camera settings and lighting ), but I know it's not an F35. ( something I'm happy to live with given the work I shoot )