F35 over Red by the director of Star Wars

Yeah, well RED One M anyway... Most of the arguments no longer seem relevant as a lot has changed in 5 years.
 
Wow. I'd never seen that. They make a compelling case. When was that originally written? It sounds like around the time of RED One. Actually movies are now being finished and projected in > 2K.
 
eddavid said:
Does anyone remember this gem of an article - by the next director of Star Wars.

Man what a flame war this article ensued. And guess who won. The rebels.

http://www.kittyguerrilla.com/RedFacts/Red_Facts.html
Click to expand...

But at the time he wrote that, he was right. The F35 is impressive in all respects except pixel count and low light (neither is the Red great with low light, though it excels in pixels), and remains so. The Red was really not great at that point, nor were its processing options....

The Dragon is looking pretty darned good now, though, as the F35 only now begins to show its age.
 
Policar said:
The F35 is impressive in all respects except pixel count and low light (neither is the Red great with low light, though it excels in pixels), and remains so.
Click to expand...

What? F35 sensor has more pixels than red one sensor and also more pixels than F5, F55, FS7, ursa, cion.....F35 has 6K sensor. Like John Galt said if red can call red one 4k camera panavision could call genesis 4k camera too. F35 same sensor. But panavision don't choose this marketing hype road.

Ed great find. I never read this. Who write this? No name in article. Was it J.J.?
 
nyvz said:
Yeah, well RED One M anyway... Most of the arguments no longer seem relevant as a lot has changed in 5 years.
Click to expand...

Any red one not only red one M. All arguments is relevant today. Movies are finished in 2k. Color and other things more important than how many Ks.
 
SJX said:
What? F35 sensor has more pixels than red one sensor and also more pixels than F5, F55, FS7, ursa, cion.....F35 has 6K sensor. Like John Galt said if red can call red one 4k camera panavision could call genesis 4k camera too. F35 same sensor. But panavision don't choose this marketing hype road.

Ed great find. I never read this. Who write this? No name in article. Was it J.J.?
Click to expand...

Ok... But it shoots in 1080p.

Rian Johnson wrote it.
 
SJX said:
Any red one not only red one M. All arguments is relevant today. Movies are finished in 2k. Color and other things more important than how many Ks.
Click to expand...

And the beauty of the RED is that as they improve the color science, imagery you shot on prior cameras looks even better.

The technology is not just in the camera, it is in the software.

Before that if you wanted new color science in the camera you had to buy a new camera.

I re-processed some old Red One footage from 2007 the other day in the new RG4 and Dragon Color and was amazed at the tonality range and colors.

It was as if I had re-shot the footage with a new camera.
 
Not really Matt - as Rian says - RAW as defined by Red is marketing - it's not raw - it's compressed 20:1. It's not a 1:1 or even 3:1 output from the sensor like F35 or Genesis can do. The new dragoncolor look is nice, I like it a lot - but it's really just a LUT going over their Red Log recording. And it's doing a debayer in post. Actually what does the debayer do? Or is dragoncolor more than a LUT? Also the red debate by Rian Johnson and Red people was the start of the new revolution in filmmaking - that opened the floodgates to cheaper cameras able to get imagery once only available in cameras that cost $250k or so like the sony F35. Because of Red we have f35's for 10k. Thank you Red.
 
Last edited:
You are right but I think Rian's point is what matters with a camera is dynamic range, perceived sharpness, and color rendition. Not how many K's of resolution the final frame is. As everyone knows - 4k only really affects the first 2 rows of a theatre - perceived sharpness goes away with distance. Hence why I still have a 720p projector and didn't go for 1080p - mathematically it doesn't give me anything more from my viewing distance. Color to me is everything, hence why I keep using the f35 and the f3. I'm pretty happy with the color out of the f55 - and excited for fs7's raw output. But until then these old beasts do just fine for me.
 
I've never understood RED's argument of "you can go back to years-old footage with new colour science and look how great it is!"

Sadly, I do not have the luxury of going back to a project I shot and delivered three years ago and going "guys, guess what, there's new colour science so this will look so awesome NOW!"

For doco or archival purposes I guess I can see a use for it, but I never had a problem with Sony's colour and I don't see there being any difference really between a new REDCOLOR and someone coming out with a new LUT for S-Log.
 
Well, I HAVE gone back several years to use some footage shot on earlier version of a camera (b-roll for the USPS) and used it in a new show and it was pretty amazing to get a marked improvement of the footage with the flip of one software setting.

YMMV.
 
but isn't their color science simply just the same as Sony having gamut and gamma settings in camera - I guess the advantage is they give you newer gamma and matrixes - but s log is already pretty much the greatest thing ever - is there a need for improvement on it? I don't really think so - I think Sony got it right. And the debayer that happens in post happens in camera on like the alexa and f35 - all it does is puts in white balance and puts in ISO settings and also makes a debayer - processes it all and spits out a workable file right - it's not like the debayer can process footage any better with future technology - the footage is recorded already with the compression in tact. The only thing you can modify is the gamut and the log files you can already modify fine. But again, S gamut 1 is good enough for me - I never dream of a better s gamut.

it's like getting pro res LT files and then converting to PRO RES 4444 - there's really no point.

Red marketing BS - so happy they muzzled Mr. Jinnard. But at the same time I really really miss him. He was quite the character.
 
Lol Red Bs. Of course Sony never does that, Canon always tells the truth and Arri says up converting is the way of the future.
 
Last edited:
Actually there never was a vibe as orwellian as red was during jinnards era. Where people would get banned left and right for stating their opinion about red.
 
Missing a few key points here: I've shot/owned F35 for a year or so, and went back to Red. The Epic Dragon's images are awesome (on par with F65). However, didn't choose it for that reason. For me, it's a camera with very few caveats. I can choose the compression, sensor crop (resolution), to an AWESOME internal and reliable high-bitrate codec, has a great/logical touch-screen interface (meant for humans), motion mount for internal ND and global shutter, frame rates...well, whatever I want...pretty much. And most of all, no Frankenrigs. It's even small enough to fly on my Ronin when I need.

No doubt, F35 (and even moreso F65) has a great mojo, but there's good reason features aren't being shot with them. Mostly due to Sony's not-so-epic failings of always chasing a new event-horizon.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top