F35 and LUT versus 5219

JMtheDP

JMtheDP

Veteran
Hi Guys

A good day today has left me feeling a bit charitable. As mentioned in other threads, I am now the extremely lucky owner of both an F35 and an ARRIFLEX 535B.

A few people here have talked about some amazing LUTs and we all know the F35's brilliant film-like palette.

Well, who wants to see a proper test of film vs F35?

My lenses are PL mount Zeiss so will fit both cameras and I can't think of a fairer test. I can record 4:4:4 10-bit to the cinedeck.

I am willing to:

Shoot the test (probably limit to exterior for practical reasons)
Provide footage to someone to grade
Give the footage away for nil

But I'll need help with:

Someone who has the LUT or willing to buy it and the experience to do it
Getting some film & getting it processed (I can do it here, but it is expensive) - donations would be welcomed

Who's interested?
 
Amazing initiative! I don't believe I personally have the grading experience to be your sidekick for this, though.
 
Hunter has volunteered. What things do people want to see though?

I can get about 200' of 5219 easily, so need to be quick with it!
 
Yay! I would suggest natural light with some contrast, Caucasian and Brown skin if possible- backlit static shot outside same POV with some fill, with a color chart and camera/filter/lens id info visible. Both cameras with 85B filters (convert the 5219 from 3200k to 5500k and F35 from 3200k to 5500k), Identical brand ND's on both (IR ND's or similar to help with f35 IR contamination). That way if there is a tint to the filter on the 85B with the film or with the ND's, both cameras will better match in grading. And they are both natively 3200K as is so that would be the most fair for seeing the color nuances. Then just do some slight over and under exposure on each in steps.

Just my ocd 2 cents! What do you think?
 
Will this be blind test ie. put the 5219 LUT on the footage and hope it looks close to actual 5219 film stock, or will there be some corroboration to see if footage(s) can be matched up, etc.? I would also suggest to shoot same scene with and without macbeth color chart in the frame.

Anyway I can put the 5219 LUT on the F35 footage, as I will buy the LUT collection in short order.
 
I think the best way to do it is not as a blind test, but do an honest "look, here's film at $50 a minute" and "here's F35 at 5c a minute".
 
We could do a few grades to get them to match? Something like: Ungraded log scan from film + Ungraded S-log, Then with the standard LUTs (print LUT on 5219 film) 5219 Film LUT on F35, then graded to intercut/match, then graded to benefit the best from each- all "straight" clean grades. Could even try to host the files somewhere so we call can download them.
 
My bets would be that they will not match without effort spent on grading them to match. I feel there can be too many variables in exposure and processing of the actual film that can account for differences.
 
JMtheDP said:
I think the best way to do it is not as a blind test, but do an honest "look, here's film at $50 a minute" and "here's F35 at 5c a minute".
Click to expand...

Agreed- I mean it could be blind if people wanted, could censor the camera info for the first half and then replay the footage with out. IMO it will be obvious what is film and what is f35 but I guess the purpose of this test is how to get the most film like color response from the f35.
 
Dennis- yeah I agree that just dropping Luts on them will not make them match, but Im happy to spend some time getting them to match and if we are able to upload all the clips somewhere (I think I can do this with my vimeo pro account), we can just all download them and give it a crack!
 
I don't think anyone, at any point, ever claimed that the F35 (or any digital camera) ever looked just like film out of the box.

So, it is almost unrealistic to expect it. After all, even a lot of 35mm originated footage we see now has a Print LUT on it.

The aim here is just to see how close the F35 can look to film without any massive effort. That was the USP of this camera and the Genesis when it was new.
 
From your first post I was under the impression that the idea was to apply the purchased 5219 LUT and put it head to head against 5219 film. If the effort is to see how close the F35 can look to film then why mentioned the 5219 LUT? Forget the LUT and just grade it to match?

Sorry guess you lost me on the purpose of this then.
 
That is the main idea Star.

I believe Hunter is going to do a couple of grades.

The one that makes most sense is "basic 5219 grade" vs "basic s-log grade with 5219 LUT on it"

Then if they're different, see what it takes to match them.

The point of the LUT is it would be great to have a "one button" film emulation look.
 
ok we're on track. I'd love to observe this test or take part, let me know once files are ready and if you need help.

cheers,
 
i would drop the LUT idea, and use ACES... it is 2014 after all... and you will have far fewer compromises, ACES was designed to support matching cameras and stocks accurately... the question really is - why would you not use it?

The lab who does the scan would be the best resource for an accurate IDT for the neg, the system i mainly use (Nucoda FilmMaster) has IDT's for all flavours of Slog
 
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I would just shoot film. Then shoot F35 SLog. THen upload the footage. THen let people play with the files, some will like to through preset Luts into the footage to see if it looks anything like film. While others might just want to try to grade it from scratch.

I prefer real world footage tests. No studio lit test charts. Outdoors, skin tones and a white/grey/black card is all I need.
 
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