F3: F3 vs. FS700?

Chris Langer

Chris Langer

Well-known member
I nabbed a really big commercial job that will in turn give me the funds to purchase some equipment. I have found the Sony F3 and Sony FS700 are priced about the same without any external recorders. My business partner already has the FS700 and I have the FS100. I am looking for something that I could use on events (wedding cinematography), small films, and commercial shoots. I don't need the 4K from an upgraded FS700, I am just worried about getting the best possible 1080p. Dynamic range, grain, form factor, etc...

You may have remembered I have used the Sony F55 on one project this summer and just loved it. I like the F3 and what I have seen of it but would it be better to get the FS700 instead? It would be nice to get the FS700 to match my business partners footage but if the F3 has more features at its current price point, I would consider that.

Let me know your thoughts, been debating this recently for awhile.

Thanks,
Chris
 
If I was in your position, I would opt for the PMW F3.

NEX vs CineAlta = CineAlta all the way.

XDCAM EX vs AVCHD = XDCAM EX any day.

PL mount vs NEX mount = Pl mount is great! Zeiss CP.2's

SxS cards vs SD cards = SxS cards

In my opinion, the F3 is more a cinematic camera, I wouldn't use mine for weddings or events, I use mine for narrative/short films. Only downside to the F3 is no 4K, but as you said your after the best possible 1080p, your going to get that from the F3.

I myself want a FS700, only really for the slow motion, but it would also help film weddings and events, and be a good B camera alongside my F3. Don't forget you will have much cheaper media with the NEX range.

If you do go with the FS700, wait for the FS700R, which will be announced in September I have read.

You have a hard decision to make, both cameras are great.

Hope this helps, Jason
 
F3 no doubt, incredible organic and filmlike images, pleasant skintones with S-Log, robust (with ET armor! sale price!).
+1 all advantages JackCarter list.
 
Whats the difference between using Sony's SxS cards vs. an external recorder? Does the 4:4:4 go to the cards too?
 
Chris Langer said:
What recorder could I buy to take advantage of the 4:4:4?
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Sound Devices Pix240i with their most current firmware. There are others but they are way more expensive. You only get 4:2:0 to the cards. With a 10bit outboard recorder such as the HyperDeck Shuttle II you get 4:2:2. Frankly, it is a case of diminishing returns to go from 422 to 444, unless your client requires it. The F3 sensor is not technically capable of giving true 444 output. The sensor doesn't have quite enough photo sites to do it. In fact very few cameras are capable of true 444 delivery. You need a camera like a Sony F35 that has a massive sensor and the camera down samples the image to 1080p and gives you enough photo site data to deliver real 444 material.
 
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i think an f3 which you can get incredibly cheap even including sony's pl lenses ( look up on ebay right now) is the more versatile choice. better picture, ergonomics, better i/o etc etc.
i bought an f55, but i'm struggling to sell my f3... it's still a great cam!
 
Chris Langer said:
What recorder could I buy to take advantage of the 4:4:4?
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I'm waiting for this one http://www.convergent-design.com/Products/Odyssey7Q.aspx


Chris Langer said:
Whats the difference between using Sony's SxS cards vs. an external recorder? Does the 4:4:4 go to the cards too?
Click to expand...


You can't record 4:4:4 to SxS cards on the F3, only 8 bit 4:2:0, however I have no problems editing or grading the footage from the SxS cards, I'm very happy with it, and I think it looks awesome. How 4:4:4 compares, I do not know as I can't try it until I get the Q7 next year. 4:4:4 is really for projects that are to be shown at the cinema. As far as I know,4:4:4 gives you more play with colour correction, green screen etc.
 
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Andrew Stone said:
You need a camera like a Sony F35 that has a massive sensor and the camera down samples the image to 1080p and gives you enough photo site data to deliver real 444 material.
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Andrew, as a B camera I'm seriously considering the FS700R, or do you think I should I get a used F35? The F3 would then becomes the B camera. Only thing that puts me off the F35 is that it's used, old and probably abused. The F35 videos that I've seen on here look amazing!

The slow motion on the FS700 is it's unique selling point for me, I could finally do a homage to Sam Peckinpah with that feature. Decisions, decisions. F55 is way out of my price range. Hopefully one day.
 
I prwefer the F3 as a camera but FS700 has some selling points mainly slo mo, but also the ability to shoot full frame with speed booster. My favorite thing about speed booster is it enables IS which I miss when handheld with the F3. Unfortunately there is no Canon glass with IS until you get tom 70-200 which you would never shoot handheld anyway.
Other FS700 pluses with a separate recorder will be 4K and Slog2 . Those advantages have made me consider selling the F3 though I hate to lose the variable shutter and other pluses. I would waity to see what the 4K recorders are received though. Slog 2 won't be worth anythjing in 8 bit.

Does anyone know what's coming with the 700R?
 
Another point to consider, although it won't give you 240fps, the Odyssey7 recorder will give you 1080p60 out of the F3 for a very reasonable price.
 
Chris Langer said:
I nabbed a really big commercial job that will in turn give me the funds to purchase some equipment. I have found the Sony F3 and Sony FS700 are priced about the same without any external recorders. My business partner already has the FS700 and I have the FS100. I am looking for something that I could use on events (wedding cinematography), small films, and commercial shoots. I don't need the 4K from an upgraded FS700, I am just worried about getting the best possible 1080p. Dynamic range, grain, form factor, etc...

You may have remembered I have used the Sony F55 on one project this summer and just loved it. I like the F3 and what I have seen of it but would it be better to get the FS700 instead? It would be nice to get the FS700 to match my business partners footage but if the F3 has more features at its current price point, I would consider that. Let me know your thoughts, been debating this recently for awhile.

Thanks,
Chris
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Here are a few still of my shoot last night with the F3. The desk was the Red 18-85mm T2.9 the rest were Nikon primes.

Couple Tub_1.15.1.jpgDesk shot_1.1.1.jpgLily Shirt_1.11.1.jpgLily CU_1.6.1.jpg
 
Here are two shots from my war film, shot with the PMW F3 and a Zeiss CP.2 25mm



us marines poster.jpg



us marines poster 2.jpg
 
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JackCarter said:
Andrew, as a B camera I'm seriously considering the FS700R, or do you think I should I get a used F35? The F3 would then becomes the B camera. Only thing that puts me off the F35 is that it's used, old and probably abused. The F35 videos that I've seen on here look amazing!
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A bit of an embarassment of riches... Personally, I would not put an F35 into the stable unless I had other S35 cameras. The F35 is an amazing camera. The stuff that comes out of that camera is by far the most enticing I have seen of any camera that is talked about on this board. I like it more than Red EPIC and in some instances even the Alexa. The look is very earthy which may have something to do with it being balanced for daylight instead of tungsten and it's sensor size (it's CCD as well). The negatives that come to mind are no on board ND filters, the weight (stripped down is just over 10 lbs... think, new tripod) and most importantly, if something goes on it, the repair cost may be so high that you have to walk away from it. Remember these cameras cost over 200 grand a few years ago. If you check out the long F35 thread you will see that some have two of them and they operate other cameras. The F35 to many of them is a luxury but they know the pitfalls of cost of operation and so on. There are a few people that use the F35 in a one man band scenario (in that thread) but really it is a camera meant to be operated by a crew. Almost all of the people who have bought F35s here have got ones that have been in good shape for rentals.

I don't know anything about the FS700R. I do know that to equip the FS700 to get the RAW option with the Sony recorder turns the unit into what is being called a bazooka.

I got the F3 when it first came out. I have got it sorted to the point with the final touch being an ENG style EVF that I can easily nail focus with. I am quite happy with it and would rather invest in microphones, lenses, filters, dollies, etc than chasing the best camera in perpetuity.

For you, look at your criteria, don't over analyze it and don't overbuy in either the camera itself or the number of cameras. There is a lot of other stuff you need to go with an S35 camera than the camera(s) and no matter how much money you have, you will burn through it fast. The competition right now in this sphere is intense and you can bet your bottom dollar the F3 and the F35 will not be the only carnage in terms of resale value in the next few years, so buy smart and conservatively. That's my 2 cents.
 
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I would opt for a used F3 and hold onto it until the F5 starts to turn up on the used market. By then you'll have the stuff around the camera that can be used on the F5 so the step to F5 wont be that costly.

Since I put the 3ality body armour on my F3 I have very few things to worry about when it comes to operation the camera. Compared to the F35 the F3 is so easy to configure and use with pretty much any lens.
 
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I use Canons 17-55/2.8 with IS extensively on my F3 and also the Canon 100/2.8 IS macro. Canon also have the 24-70/4 IS and 24-105/4 IS. Plenty of options to be used for video.
 
If you have a FS100 already then perhaps you have lots of E mount lenses or lenses with E mount adapters.

The biggest thing that prevented me from going down the F3 route were the lenses - at the moment i use everything from rangefinder lenses to modern ZA Zooms.

With the O7 you will be able to record 1080p 444 with 10 bit log derived from 12 bit linear (So the 4K output down sampled). I believe that would be better quality than the F3 but of course that's guesswork right now.

Personally i would go down the 700 route + O7 recorder if an F5/F55 isn't achievable.

cheers
Paul
 
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